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marriage?
homosexuals should be allowed get married just like heterosexuals 84%  84%  [ 48 ]
people in general should not be allowed to get married unless they intend on having/raising children 7%  7%  [ 4 ]
other option 9%  9%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 57

Kraichgauer
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16 Apr 2011, 1:03 pm

cdfox7 wrote:
To us Birts this debate is old hat has we discussed this issues before civil partnerships where given the thumbs up.


Plenty of American states have civil unions. But the debate now lies with extending actual marriage to gay couples. There are still many people who are so homophobic that they can't handle extending the very word "marriage," and all it entails to gay Americans.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



cdfox7
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16 Apr 2011, 1:16 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
To us Birts this debate is old hat has we discussed this issues before civil partnerships where given the thumbs up.


Plenty of American states have civil unions. But the debate now lies with extending actual marriage to gay couples. There are still many people who are so homophobic that they can't handle extending the very word "marriage," and all it entails to gay Americans.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Over here civil partnerships are legal on par with civil marriages. Tho now theres the issue of the legal rights of common law marriage for homosexual partners.



Kraichgauer
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16 Apr 2011, 1:30 pm

cdfox7 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
To us Birts this debate is old hat has we discussed this issues before civil partnerships where given the thumbs up.


Plenty of American states have civil unions. But the debate now lies with extending actual marriage to gay couples. There are still many people who are so homophobic that they can't handle extending the very word "marriage," and all it entails to gay Americans.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Over here civil partnerships are legal on par with civil marriages. Tho now theres the issue of the legal rights of common law marriage for homosexual partners.


Oh, civil unions for gays are the same in America, as in Britain. But there is a certain, special recognition and acceptance in society that marriage carries with it that gay couples don't want to be denied any longer.
And as a heterosexual man, I can understand, as I'd find being told that I could only be engaged in a civil union with my wife to be offensive. Being married implies you are pledged to that one, special person, who you have sworn life long devotion to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



cdfox7
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16 Apr 2011, 1:48 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
To us Birts this debate is old hat has we discussed this issues before civil partnerships where given the thumbs up.


Plenty of American states have civil unions. But the debate now lies with extending actual marriage to gay couples. There are still many people who are so homophobic that they can't handle extending the very word "marriage," and all it entails to gay Americans.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Over here civil partnerships are legal on par with civil marriages. Tho now theres the issue of the legal rights of common law marriage for homosexual partners.


Oh, civil unions for gays are the same in America, as in Britain. But there is a certain, special recognition and acceptance in society that marriage carries with it that gay couples don't want to be denied any longer.
And as a heterosexual man, I can understand, as I'd find being told that I could only be engaged in a civil union with my wife to be offensive. Being married implies you are pledged to that one, special person, who you have sworn life long devotion to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


When marriage is viewed as both a legal & religious contract that's where the problems lie.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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16 Apr 2011, 1:56 pm

cdfox7 wrote:

When marriage is viewed as both a legal & religious contract that's where the problems lie.


That all depends if the two views are kept separate or not. In the US, sadly, they aren't.


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cdfox7
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16 Apr 2011, 2:02 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:

When marriage is viewed as both a legal & religious contract that's where the problems lie.


That all depends if the two views are kept separate or not. In the US, sadly, they aren't.


Its yes and no over here, one example to do with Mormons in the UK, temple marriage is not legal recognised as a state marriage but a civil marriage in a LDS church is.



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16 Apr 2011, 2:05 pm

cdfox7 wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:

When marriage is viewed as both a legal & religious contract that's where the problems lie.


That all depends if the two views are kept separate or not. In the US, sadly, they aren't.


Its yes and no over here, one example to do with Mormons in the UK, temple marriage is not legal recognised as a state marriage but a civil marriage in a LDS church is.


That's the way it works for Mormons here, too. I, personally, see nothing wrong with this set-up and think every church marriage should be done this way.

Have a legal marriage, then if you desire it, a religious ceremony.


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cdfox7
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16 Apr 2011, 2:13 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:

When marriage is viewed as both a legal & religious contract that's where the problems lie.


That all depends if the two views are kept separate or not. In the US, sadly, they aren't.


Its yes and no over here, one example to do with Mormons in the UK, temple marriage is not legal recognised as a state marriage but a civil marriage in a LDS church is.


That's the way it works for Mormons here, too. I, personally, see nothing wrong with this set-up and think every church marriage should be done this way.

Have a legal marriage, then if you desire it, a religious ceremony.


Yes I agree, only a few years ago the law was changed re marriage & location as now it easer to get wed outdoors without the old red tap we use to have.



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16 Apr 2011, 4:15 pm

I have a question.. I'm very confused by the US system of government. (yes, I'm from the US.. always have been)

I know that we are a republic and that the idea is that the majority of rule is left to individual states. Where my confusion comes in is, how is it that the federal government or Supreme Court can make decisions on the legality of same-gender marriage, abortion, capital punishment, medicinal marijuana, etc... How can individual states still dispute it and why can one of those be legal in one state and not in another. To me, it should be cut and dried, if they've found something to be legal or illegal on a federal level, then I reason that should apply to all under federal jurisdiction. I know this isn't the case, but I don't understand why.

Really, I'm not trying to induce a derailment... I'm just hoping someone can explain this to me.

Because I don't understand the role the feds really play in this, I tend to not pay much attention when some of these law are passed or revoked.. so if I've made a wrong assumption, it's because I'm truly ignorant of these things. :? But I'd like not to be.



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16 Apr 2011, 5:05 pm

BurntOutMom wrote:
I have a question.. I'm very confused by the US system of government. (yes, I'm from the US.. always have been)

I know that we are a republic and that the idea is that the majority of rule is left to individual states. Where my confusion comes in is, how is it that the federal government or Supreme Court can make decisions on the legality of same-gender marriage, abortion, capital punishment, medicinal marijuana, etc... How can individual states still dispute it and why can one of those be legal in one state and not in another. To me, it should be cut and dried, if they've found something to be legal or illegal on a federal level, then I reason that should apply to all under federal jurisdiction. I know this isn't the case, but I don't understand why.

Really, I'm not trying to induce a derailment... I'm just hoping someone can explain this to me.

Because I don't understand the role the feds really play in this, I tend to not pay much attention when some of these law are passed or revoked.. so if I've made a wrong assumption, it's because I'm truly ignorant of these things. :? But I'd like not to be.


The federal government via the Supreme Court mostly decides if a state enacted law in one of these areas is constitutional or unconstitutional. Quite a variety of different laws can be enacted, reflecting different local beliefs and preferences, that are all considered constitutional.

Sometimes the federal government will write a law that is designed to supercede all local and state laws. If that law is written consistent with the constitution and the intended division of power with the states, it take can override the local law.

Is that what you are looking for?


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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16 Apr 2011, 5:07 pm

BurntOutMom wrote:
I have a question.. I'm very confused by the US system of government. (yes, I'm from the US.. always have been)

I know that we are a republic and that the idea is that the majority of rule is left to individual states. Where my confusion comes in is, how is it that the federal government or Supreme Court can make decisions on the legality of same-gender marriage, abortion, capital punishment, medicinal marijuana, etc... How can individual states still dispute it and why can one of those be legal in one state and not in another. To me, it should be cut and dried, if they've found something to be legal or illegal on a federal level, then I reason that should apply to all under federal jurisdiction. I know this isn't the case, but I don't understand why.

Really, I'm not trying to induce a derailment... I'm just hoping someone can explain this to me.

Because I don't understand the role the feds really play in this, I tend to not pay much attention when some of these law are passed or revoked.. so if I've made a wrong assumption, it's because I'm truly ignorant of these things. :? But I'd like not to be.


Oy... that's really an entirely different debate. Suffice it to say, the feds were originally supposed to just loosely govern the states but in recent years they've tried taking over the roles of the state governments.


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imbatshitcrazy
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16 Apr 2011, 5:09 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
imbatshitcrazy wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I am for marriage equality. Either everyone has the right, or nobody does.


that is EXACTLY what the poll is saying. :roll:


I know what the poll says. It's still biased. The "other" option just doesn't cut it for me.


how on earth is this poll biased. because of the 'other' option?



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16 Apr 2011, 5:11 pm

imbatshitcrazy wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
imbatshitcrazy wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I am for marriage equality. Either everyone has the right, or nobody does.


that is EXACTLY what the poll is saying. :roll:


I know what the poll says. It's still biased. The "other" option just doesn't cut it for me.


how on earth is this poll biased. because of the 'other' option?


No. The 'other' option is really a poor substitute for "I don't think gay marriage is okay, and only straight couples should be allowed marriage benefits".


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imbatshitcrazy
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16 Apr 2011, 11:02 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
imbatshitcrazy wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
imbatshitcrazy wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I am for marriage equality. Either everyone has the right, or nobody does.


that is EXACTLY what the poll is saying. :roll:


I know what the poll says. It's still biased. The "other" option just doesn't cut it for me.


how on earth is this poll biased. because of the 'other' option?


No. The 'other' option is really a poor substitute for "I don't think gay marriage is okay, and only straight couples should be allowed marriage benefits".


i was giving that option, because "I don't think gay marriage is okay, and only straight couples should be allowed marriage benefits" might sound biggoted. also, people might also believe that (i don't BTW)

now again, HOW IS THIS POLL BIASED???! !!



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16 Apr 2011, 11:04 pm

I just explained it. I get your reasonings, but I still don't vote in polls that are not impartial.


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imbatshitcrazy
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16 Apr 2011, 11:37 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I just explained it. I get your reasonings, but I still don't vote in polls that are not impartial.


so let me get this straight, because i used the word 'other' instead of "I don't think gay marriage is okay, and only straight couples should be allowed marriage benefits", this poll is not imparial. if its another reason, i don't know because you don't seem to be giving me any.

also, other people might have other opinions on the matter like how they would like civil unions, etc, so that is another reason why i put 'other'