03 Jul 2011, 9:59 pm
03 Jul 2011, 10:08 pm
03 Jul 2011, 10:15 pm
03 Jul 2011, 10:25 pm
03 Jul 2011, 10:34 pm
03 Jul 2011, 10:36 pm
03 Jul 2011, 11:01 pm
03 Jul 2011, 11:19 pm
03 Jul 2011, 11:30 pm
Dox47 wrote:
Sand wrote:
If you can seriously demonstrate that people without guns are regularly recorded as shooting each other I would be fascinated.
So you only care about violence if it involves shooting; bludgeonings, stabbings, stranglings, etc all get a pass as far as you're concerned? You're the one who wants to impose force on others, so it's your burden to prove that access to firearms increases VIOLENCE overall, not just gun violence, since weapon choice is fairly irrelevant to the victim. AoS has posted plenty of studies demonstrating that the presence of firearms alone does not correlate with the rate of violent crime, so refute them if you can.
I'm not holding my breath though, since you've clearly demonstrated in your previous posts that you're simply going to ignore data that conflicts with your personal opinions, and further, I've had this exact argument with you repeatedly and it never goes anywhere. Before you go trying to prove that guns cause violence, perhaps you might start by proving that you can bring something to the table besides anecdotes and contempt, since that's all I seem to see posted under your name these days.
Sand wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Sand wrote:
If you can seriously demonstrate that people without guns are regularly recorded as shooting each other I would be fascinated.
So you only care about violence if it involves shooting; bludgeonings, stabbings, stranglings, etc all get a pass as far as you're concerned? You're the one who wants to impose force on others, so it's your burden to prove that access to firearms increases VIOLENCE overall, not just gun violence, since weapon choice is fairly irrelevant to the victim. AoS has posted plenty of studies demonstrating that the presence of firearms alone does not correlate with the rate of violent crime, so refute them if you can.
I'm not holding my breath though, since you've clearly demonstrated in your previous posts that you're simply going to ignore data that conflicts with your personal opinions, and further, I've had this exact argument with you repeatedly and it never goes anywhere. Before you go trying to prove that guns cause violence, perhaps you might start by proving that you can bring something to the table besides anecdotes and contempt, since that's all I seem to see posted under your name these days.
Let me put it as plainly as I can. When someone in public openly displays a lethal weapon that is an extremely strong public statement. It says I can kill you with the twitch of my finger. If someone walked down the street exclaiming to everybody "HEY! I CAN KILL YOU" should I be nervous? That's what an exposed firearm screams. And that's why the wearer carries one. Whether he or she is psychotic or neurotic or just fascinated with the exposure of supreme egotistical lethal power I am not comfortable with that character. And I think I am perfectly justified in my feelings. It has very little to do with statistics, it has to do with open confrontation. I have no idea if that person is normal or trained in firearms or out to nail someone -anyone-, who might accidentally bump into him or her. I find that extremely uncivilized. Don't shove statistics at me. They are meaningless in an individual confrontation.
03 Jul 2011, 11:36 pm
03 Jul 2011, 11:37 pm
AceOfSpades wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Sand wrote:
If you can seriously demonstrate that people without guns are regularly recorded as shooting each other I would be fascinated.
So you only care about violence if it involves shooting; bludgeonings, stabbings, stranglings, etc all get a pass as far as you're concerned? You're the one who wants to impose force on others, so it's your burden to prove that access to firearms increases VIOLENCE overall, not just gun violence, since weapon choice is fairly irrelevant to the victim. AoS has posted plenty of studies demonstrating that the presence of firearms alone does not correlate with the rate of violent crime, so refute them if you can.
I'm not holding my breath though, since you've clearly demonstrated in your previous posts that you're simply going to ignore data that conflicts with your personal opinions, and further, I've had this exact argument with you repeatedly and it never goes anywhere. Before you go trying to prove that guns cause violence, perhaps you might start by proving that you can bring something to the table besides anecdotes and contempt, since that's all I seem to see posted under your name these days.
Sand wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Sand wrote:
If you can seriously demonstrate that people without guns are regularly recorded as shooting each other I would be fascinated.
So you only care about violence if it involves shooting; bludgeonings, stabbings, stranglings, etc all get a pass as far as you're concerned? You're the one who wants to impose force on others, so it's your burden to prove that access to firearms increases VIOLENCE overall, not just gun violence, since weapon choice is fairly irrelevant to the victim. AoS has posted plenty of studies demonstrating that the presence of firearms alone does not correlate with the rate of violent crime, so refute them if you can.
I'm not holding my breath though, since you've clearly demonstrated in your previous posts that you're simply going to ignore data that conflicts with your personal opinions, and further, I've had this exact argument with you repeatedly and it never goes anywhere. Before you go trying to prove that guns cause violence, perhaps you might start by proving that you can bring something to the table besides anecdotes and contempt, since that's all I seem to see posted under your name these days.
Let me put it as plainly as I can. When someone in public openly displays a lethal weapon that is an extremely strong public statement. It says I can kill you with the twitch of my finger. If someone walked down the street exclaiming to everybody "HEY! I CAN KILL YOU" should I be nervous? That's what an exposed firearm screams. And that's why the wearer carries one. Whether he or she is psychotic or neurotic or just fascinated with the exposure of supreme egotistical lethal power I am not comfortable with that character. And I think I am perfectly justified in my feelings. It has very little to do with statistics, it has to do with open confrontation. I have no idea if that person is normal or trained in firearms or out to nail someone -anyone-, who might accidentally bump into him or her. I find that extremely uncivilized. Don't shove statistics at me. They are meaningless in an individual confrontation.
I see the neuroticism and arrogance on the other side. I have lived a long and safe life totally unarmed and have ventured into many areas of the world. To carry a gun displays extreme fear and to be totally immersed in fear can lead to terrible consequences. There is no guarantee that an armed person is either trained or emotionally stable and merely carrying a gun indicates a strong possibility of something otherwise.
03 Jul 2011, 11:45 pm
04 Jul 2011, 12:10 am
Dox47 wrote:
Sand wrote:
I see the neuroticism and arrogance on the other side. I have lived a long and safe life totally unarmed and have ventured into many areas of the world. To carry a gun displays extreme fear and to be totally immersed in fear can lead to terrible consequences. There is no guarantee that an armed person is either trained or emotionally stable and merely carrying a gun indicates a strong possibility of something otherwise.
Sources, please. And no, you personally are not a source.
It's a fact that Sand will NEVER win a debate on this topic or even make a logical or even respectable point. The only reason I engage him is to try to show the rest of the members of this forum the falacy of
the anti-gun mentality.
Too bad he makes it so easy.
04 Jul 2011, 12:14 am
Raptor wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Sand wrote:
I see the neuroticism and arrogance on the other side. I have lived a long and safe life totally unarmed and have ventured into many areas of the world. To carry a gun displays extreme fear and to be totally immersed in fear can lead to terrible consequences. There is no guarantee that an armed person is either trained or emotionally stable and merely carrying a gun indicates a strong possibility of something otherwise.
Sources, please. And no, you personally are not a source.
It's a fact that Sand will NEVER win a debate on this topic or even make a logical or even respectable point. The only reason I engage him is to try to show the rest of the members of this forum the falacy of
the anti-gun mentality.
Too bad he makes it so easy.
It apparently is obviously fallacious that people with guns kill people. And guns aren't dangerous. They aren't designed to be dangerous. That's why they always jam and the bullets never emerge from the barrels. Just like can openers are useless for opening cans.
04 Jul 2011, 12:26 am
04 Jul 2011, 12:28 am
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