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What is a bigger threat to Western civilization?

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What poses a bigger threat to us?
Our own global elite 88%  88%  [ 22 ]
Radical Islam 12%  12%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 25

Kraichgauer
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11 Dec 2011, 4:06 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I voted for our own global elite killing democracy. Already, 1% of them owns more than the 99% of us. Things can only go down hill from there.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That is an exaggeration. 40 percent of the financial assets of the U.S. are owned by one percent of its citizens. If you want ownership equalized be prepared for the total destruction of the economy. No functional industrial economy can have equal ownership AND control in all of its people. It simply cannot work.

Do you want industry and technology? Then be prepared for some inequality.

ruveyn


I admit I might have exaggerated a bit, but the fact remains, too much inequality destroys liberty. After all, the fight for equality is a primary goal for any civil rights movement.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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11 Dec 2011, 4:07 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

I admit I might have exaggerated a bit, but the fact remains, too much inequality destroys liberty. After all, the fight for equality is a primary goal for any civil rights movement.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And just who decides what is too much? You?

ruveyn



Kraichgauer
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11 Dec 2011, 4:15 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

I admit I might have exaggerated a bit, but the fact remains, too much inequality destroys liberty. After all, the fight for equality is a primary goal for any civil rights movement.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And just who decides what is too much? You?

ruveyn


I think it becomes obvious to all of us, when the few receive all the benefits, while the rest of us are left out in the cold.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Inuyasha
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11 Dec 2011, 4:21 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

I admit I might have exaggerated a bit, but the fact remains, too much inequality destroys liberty. After all, the fight for equality is a primary goal for any civil rights movement.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And just who decides what is too much? You?

ruveyn


I think it becomes obvious to all of us, when the few receive all the benefits, while the rest of us are left out in the cold.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Well looks like you support death panels then, which is actually in Obamacare.



Kraichgauer
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11 Dec 2011, 4:25 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

I admit I might have exaggerated a bit, but the fact remains, too much inequality destroys liberty. After all, the fight for equality is a primary goal for any civil rights movement.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And just who decides what is too much? You?

ruveyn


I think it becomes obvious to all of us, when the few receive all the benefits, while the rest of us are left out in the cold.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Well looks like you support death panels then, which is actually in Obamacare.


Number one - how the hell do you deduce anything about death panels from what I wrote?
And...
Number two - No, Obamacare doesn't have anything to do with death panels. That's nothing more than discredited right wing lies meant to be spoon fed to the feeble minded.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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11 Dec 2011, 5:41 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

I think it becomes obvious to all of us, when the few receive all the benefits, while the rest of us are left out in the cold.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That is the entire history of the human race. The Few receive more than the Many. It always has been so and it always will be so. Why? Because humans are not equally endowed. Some are smarter, stronger, more focused, better looking, better educated, .... etc. ad infinitim. On the day that all humans are equal and the same, the wealth will be fairly divided. Until then, just be satisfied with your portion or work to make it larger.

ruveyn



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11 Dec 2011, 7:24 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

I admit I might have exaggerated a bit, but the fact remains, too much inequality destroys liberty. After all, the fight for equality is a primary goal for any civil rights movement.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And just who decides what is too much? You?

ruveyn


I think it becomes obvious to all of us, when the few receive all the benefits, while the rest of us are left out in the cold.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer




Well looks like you support death panels then, which is actually in Obamacare.
No, it is not. Death panels do not exist in the ridiculously minor healthcare reform bill, as can be proved below:

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~nyhan/health- ... mation.pdf

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009 ... act_lepore

And here is Prof. Lepore's page on Harvard's Website:

http://scholar.harvard.edu/jlepore/biocv

Death panels are a conspiracy theory, just like the belief that President Obama is not a naturally born American citizen or the belief that the September 11 attacks were caused by the US government. Give me reliable sources otherwise and I will believe you; otherwise, your belief in death panels is as ridiculous as the other 2 movements I mentioned.


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Abgal64
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11 Dec 2011, 7:26 pm

Oodain wrote:
Abgal64 wrote:
Socialized medicine can work far better than the American system is capable of, as can be seen in Germany, Cuba and the Indian state of Kerala.

And socialized medicine is compatible with private medical practices in theory, and in practice.


try telling some americans that though and they will be screaming commie left and right
all of it due to lack of varied experience
I know... I have lived in the USA my whole life. So many of the people I meet love not knowing answers to questions.


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Kraichgauer
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11 Dec 2011, 9:32 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

I think it becomes obvious to all of us, when the few receive all the benefits, while the rest of us are left out in the cold.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That is the entire history of the human race. The Few receive more than the Many. It always has been so and it always will be so. Why? Because humans are not equally endowed. Some are smarter, stronger, more focused, better looking, better educated, .... etc. ad infinitim. On the day that all humans are equal and the same, the wealth will be fairly divided. Until then, just be satisfied with your portion or work to make it larger.

ruveyn


People have been unequal throughout world history because of rigid class systems, which at times included slavery, or because of accident of which race or ethnicity they might have been born into. None of this justifies the lack of equality in whichever society. The modern industrialized west had offered something else better to the world by the mid-twentieth century - but alas, even we have begun our slide back into cultural class division.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



petitesouris
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11 Dec 2011, 9:58 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The real problem occurs at the top when the State, Government or Establishment thinks it knows better than the people who have to suffer from their stupidity.


+10

Yet, I am more worried about manipulative leaders than dumb, misguided ones who could easily be thwarted.



Last edited by petitesouris on 12 Dec 2011, 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tadzio
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12 Dec 2011, 1:24 am

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

I admit I might have exaggerated a bit, but the fact remains, too much inequality destroys liberty. After all, the fight for equality is a primary goal for any civil rights movement.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And just who decides what is too much? You?

ruveyn


The answer seemed to have surprised Marie-Antoinette, as if unknowable, when posed by her same pseudo-frivolous joking inquiry too.

The absent workable cake proved a poor assumption.

Tadzio

P.S.: Hi Kraichgauer, no, the CitiGroup Report illustrates that you underestimated from the gaps, using different methods of calculation: http://madsociologist.net/resources/Plutonomy.pdf
"Our thesis is that the plutonomists are likely to get even richer over the coming years. This could mean global imbalances get even larger, without the planet getting knocked of its axis and sucked into the cosmos. But this thesis is not without its risks. Plutonomies have existed before and they have come to an end. " Page 17, "The Global Investigator" – September 29, 2006.



Kraichgauer
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12 Dec 2011, 2:03 am

Tadzio wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

I admit I might have exaggerated a bit, but the fact remains, too much inequality destroys liberty. After all, the fight for equality is a primary goal for any civil rights movement.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And just who decides what is too much? You?

ruveyn


The answer seemed to have surprised Marie-Antoinette, as if unknowable, when posed by her same pseudo-frivolous joking inquiry too.

The absent workable cake proved a poor assumption.

Tadzio

P.S.: Hi Kraichgauer, no, the CitiGroup Report illustrates that you underestimated from the gaps, using different methods of calculation: http://madsociologist.net/resources/Plutonomy.pdf
"Our thesis is that the plutonomists are likely to get even richer over the coming years. This could mean global imbalances get even larger, without the planet getting knocked of its axis and sucked into the cosmos. But this thesis is not without its risks. Plutonomies have existed before and they have come to an end. " Page 17, "The Global Investigator" – September 29, 2006.


Thanks for the nod of confidence.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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12 Dec 2011, 2:23 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
People have been unequal throughout world history because of rigid class systems, which at times included slavery, or because of accident of which race or ethnicity they might have been born into. None of this justifies the lack of equality in whichever society. The modern industrialized west had offered something else better to the world by the mid-twentieth century - but alas, even we have begun our slide back into cultural class division.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


While there are social, political and economic factors producing inequality the main underlying reason is differences in inherent ability among members of the species. Also there is just plain Luck, good, bad or indifferent.

Even if we come up with a Just social order (possible in theory) you will still be frustrated and annoyed by the differences in outcome that will happen anyway.

ruveyn



Kraichgauer
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12 Dec 2011, 2:53 am

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
People have been unequal throughout world history because of rigid class systems, which at times included slavery, or because of accident of which race or ethnicity they might have been born into. None of this justifies the lack of equality in whichever society. The modern industrialized west had offered something else better to the world by the mid-twentieth century - but alas, even we have begun our slide back into cultural class division.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


While there are social, political and economic factors producing inequality the main underlying reason is differences in inherent ability among members of the species. Also there is just plain Luck, good, bad or indifferent.

Even if we come up with a Just social order (possible in theory) you will still be frustrated and annoyed by the differences in outcome that will happen anyway.

ruveyn


Sure, but everyone is still (or should be considered) of equal worth under the law in America and the rest of the west. How long will it be till that's lost if the wealthy continue to accumulate wealth and power around themselves?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Tadzio
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12 Dec 2011, 3:05 am

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
People have been unequal throughout world history because of rigid class systems, which at times included slavery, or because of accident of which race or ethnicity they might have been born into. None of this justifies the lack of equality in whichever society. The modern industrialized west had offered something else better to the world by the mid-twentieth century - but alas, even we have begun our slide back into cultural class division.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


While there are social, political and economic factors producing inequality the main underlying reason is differences in inherent ability among members of the species. Also there is just plain Luck, good, bad or indifferent.

Even if we come up with a Just social order (possible in theory) you will still be frustrated and annoyed by the differences in outcome that will happen anyway.

ruveyn


That balderdash was preached a couple decades ago under the "divine Bell-Curve", which was claimed by the most wealthy, to demonstrate their greater worth being in the top 15% or so (more than one standard deviation from the "mean" by the divine curve). But now that the top of the top is peaked at 1%, to heck with that bell curve divine faith for that now trashy left-behind pseudo-rich discards, and their tasteless "Mac-Mansions".

What could go wrong with the 1% Plutonomy?? What won't go wrong??? As when the bottom goes, so does the Golden Ass top: "which have killed previous plutonomies, we think the most potent and short-term threat would be societies demanding a more ‘equitable’ share of wealth. " Page 7, Ibid.:
http://madsociologist.net/resources/Plutonomy.pdf

Tadzio



ruveyn
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12 Dec 2011, 11:54 am

Tadzio wrote:

That balderdash was preached a couple decades ago under the "divine Bell-Curve", which was claimed by the most wealthy, to demonstrate their greater worth being in the top 15% or so (more than one standard deviation from the "mean" by the divine curve). But now that the top of the top is peaked at 1%, to heck with that bell curve divine faith for that now trashy left-behind pseudo-rich discards, and their tasteless "Mac-Mansions".



It isn't balderdash Some people are smarter than others for genetic reasons. Some people can play basketball better than other for genetic reasons to wit, height and hand-eye co-ordination. These are wired in talents. In the entire history of our kind of human which is about 50 - 75 thousand years, an equal society has NEVER, EVER existed. Not once. Ask yourself why. One cannot equalize the inherently unequal. Howbeit, inherent inequality of individual human cannot justify social and political processes that put arbitrary and unnecessary barriers in the way of capable folk. We need a just society, not an egalitarian society.

ruveyn