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Robert Zubrin: the importance of space for mankind.

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iamnotaparakeet
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10 Jan 2012, 1:51 pm

Oodain wrote:
i used interplanetary for a reason :wink:


Sorry, I see now that that's what you wrote, but when I replied my mind read stellar rather than planetary. Sorry about that.



iamnotaparakeet
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10 Jan 2012, 1:54 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
We should only focus on interstellar space travel because it forces the advancement in technology.


No, that would only encourage the eternal stagnation of spaceflight to the point of nothingness in less than a decade.



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10 Jan 2012, 3:20 pm

If we focus on Mars, only low technology solutions with 500 day flight times will be proposed. While acceptable for Mars the low technology solution would take us tens of thousands of years to get us to the nearest star. With interstellar space technology, only high technology solutions will be considered that have a capability of achieving a significant fraction of the speed of light.



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10 Jan 2012, 4:04 pm

I think getting our butts to Mars would be a good first start prior to interstellar travel as it doubles the surface area for agriculture (although prior to terraformation agriculture would need to be in sealed pressurized environments) and costs a lot less in fuel to go anywhere from there, even including the Earth's own moon. Once we get out to Mars and the asteroid belt, then we'll really be cooking with gas. To solely focus upon developing propulsion technologies which may be physically impossible to make is essentially to say, "let's sit around here and do nothing until there's no more time to do anything!" But we go to Mars, we build, we conquer the rest of the solar system and then we build the ships to travel elsewhere.



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10 Jan 2012, 4:07 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CeiPJaHuoQ&feature=related[/youtube]


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10 Jan 2012, 4:08 pm

I think we will have interstellar space travel capability before we have the technology to terraform Mars. And remember if we find a planet like Hawaii terraforming will not be required.



iamnotaparakeet
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10 Jan 2012, 4:09 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
I think we will have interstellar space travel capability before we have the technology to terraform Mars. And remember if we find a planet like Hawaii terraforming will not be required.


We've had the technology to terraform Mars since July 16th 1945.



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10 Jan 2012, 4:12 pm

Vigilans wrote:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CeiPJaHuoQ&feature=related[/youtube]


LOL, awesome.



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10 Jan 2012, 4:42 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
I think we will have interstellar space travel capability before we have the technology to terraform Mars. And remember if we find a planet like Hawaii terraforming will not be required.


We've had the technology to terraform Mars since July 16th 1945.


Nuclear bombs do not terraform anything.

ruveyn



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10 Jan 2012, 4:47 pm

ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
I think we will have interstellar space travel capability before we have the technology to terraform Mars. And remember if we find a planet like Hawaii terraforming will not be required.


We've had the technology to terraform Mars since July 16th 1945.


Nuclear bombs do not terraform anything.

ruveyn


They don't do a particularly good job of terraforming terra, but using thermonuclear bombs to trigger volcanic eruptions would allow for a higher pressure of atmosphere and once the pressure of atmosphere is past a certain point the water and CO2 frozen in the regolith will also began outgassing and the process of giving an appreciable atmosphere to Mars would become automatic.



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11 Jan 2012, 2:26 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
I think we will have interstellar space travel capability before we have the technology to terraform Mars. And remember if we find a planet like Hawaii terraforming will not be required.


We've had the technology to terraform Mars since July 16th 1945.


Nuclear bombs do not terraform anything.

ruveyn


They don't do a particularly good job of terraforming terra, but using thermonuclear bombs to trigger volcanic eruptions would allow for a higher pressure of atmosphere and once the pressure of atmosphere is past a certain point the water and CO2 frozen in the regolith will also began outgassing and the process of giving an appreciable atmosphere to Mars would become automatic.


What would one do about Mars' lack of magnetic field. We still need that to stave off most of the cosmic rays. Mars does have remnants of one and so it probably had a magnetic field like the Earth's millions of years ago but it doesn't now.



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11 Jan 2012, 2:29 am

Jono wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
I think we will have interstellar space travel capability before we have the technology to terraform Mars. And remember if we find a planet like Hawaii terraforming will not be required.


We've had the technology to terraform Mars since July 16th 1945.


Nuclear bombs do not terraform anything.

ruveyn


They don't do a particularly good job of terraforming terra, but using thermonuclear bombs to trigger volcanic eruptions would allow for a higher pressure of atmosphere and once the pressure of atmosphere is past a certain point the water and CO2 frozen in the regolith will also began outgassing and the process of giving an appreciable atmosphere to Mars would become automatic.


What would one do about Mars' lack of magnetic field. We still need that to stave off most of the cosmic rays. Mars does have remnants of one and so it probably had a magnetic field like the Earth's millions of years ago but it doesn't now.


The thickened atmosphere would deflect some of it, while some of the atmosphere would naturally be "blown" away. Thus an active process of atmospheric rejuvenation would be needed. For longer term solutions a few different mega-engineering projects have been suggested


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11 Jan 2012, 5:53 am

Vigilans wrote:
Jono wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
I think we will have interstellar space travel capability before we have the technology to terraform Mars. And remember if we find a planet like Hawaii terraforming will not be required.


We've had the technology to terraform Mars since July 16th 1945.


Nuclear bombs do not terraform anything.

ruveyn


They don't do a particularly good job of terraforming terra, but using thermonuclear bombs to trigger volcanic eruptions would allow for a higher pressure of atmosphere and once the pressure of atmosphere is past a certain point the water and CO2 frozen in the regolith will also began outgassing and the process of giving an appreciable atmosphere to Mars would become automatic.


What would one do about Mars' lack of magnetic field. We still need that to stave off most of the cosmic rays. Mars does have remnants of one and so it probably had a magnetic field like the Earth's millions of years ago but it doesn't now.


The thickened atmosphere would deflect some of it, while some of the atmosphere would naturally be "blown" away. Thus an active process of atmospheric rejuvenation would be needed. For longer term solutions a few different mega-engineering projects have been suggested


As for individual considerations, having residences buried or otherwise having a sufficient thickness of ceiling would block the cosmic rays. Building monolithic domes and other structures interconnected with tunnels and then buried with only airlocks to the surface is one option that I wouldn't mind so much. That isn't the only option of course, as having surface habitats with sandbags would work to reduce the cosmic radiation and practically block the rest which isn't already blocked by the current martian atmosphere.



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11 Jan 2012, 8:49 am

Jono wrote:

They don't do a particularly good job of terraforming terra, but using thermonuclear bombs to trigger volcanic eruptions would allow for a higher pressure of atmosphere and once the pressure of atmosphere is past a certain point the water and CO2 frozen in the regolith will also began outgassing and the process of giving an appreciable atmosphere to Mars would become automatic.


What would one do about Mars' lack of magnetic field. We still need that to stave off most of the cosmic rays. Mars does have remnants of one and so it probably had a magnetic field like the Earth's millions of years ago but it doesn't now.[/quote]

Any atmosphere we can make would last to blinks of an eye in cosmic time. The sun's radiation would "sand blast" that atmosphere away. Mars is a loser.

It is too far away to get help from Earth and is a bad place to raise human children.

ruveyn



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11 Jan 2012, 9:04 am

ruveyn wrote:
Quote:
Jono wrote:

They don't do a particularly good job of terraforming terra, but using thermonuclear bombs to trigger volcanic eruptions would allow for a higher pressure of atmosphere and once the pressure of atmosphere is past a certain point the water and CO2 frozen in the regolith will also began outgassing and the process of giving an appreciable atmosphere to Mars would become automatic.


What would one do about Mars' lack of magnetic field. We still need that to stave off most of the cosmic rays. Mars does have remnants of one and so it probably had a magnetic field like the Earth's millions of years ago but it doesn't now.


Any atmosphere we can make would last to blinks of an eye in cosmic time. The sun's radiation would "sand blast" that atmosphere away. Mars is a loser.

It is too far away to get help from Earth and is a bad place to raise human children.

ruveyn


In The Case For Mars, the length of time of which an atmosphere we can produce on Mars would be able to last would be about 100 million years. For human purposes, it needn't last even a few thousand really.



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11 Jan 2012, 9:05 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm34Muv6Lsg[/youtube]