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Why haven't extraterrestrials made their presence known?

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Why haven't aliens made themselves known to us en masse?
They actually have but most people refuse to accept it 25%  25%  [ 20 ]
They think we are not ready for it 5%  5%  [ 4 ]
They think we are cruel/violent and don't deserve to know 9%  9%  [ 7 ]
They have a reason not to disclose that is unclear 6%  6%  [ 5 ]
Aliens have never visited Earth silly 56%  56%  [ 45 ]
Total votes : 81

shrox
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06 Feb 2012, 1:27 pm

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peebo
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06 Feb 2012, 1:30 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
There are so many reports of people being abducted and contacted, as well as confessions from high places, that it seems like we are being visited, even though we don't have a spaceship or body to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt.


conspiracy theorists believe they have, but only in fleeting glimpses to the few chosen...


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TM
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06 Feb 2012, 1:53 pm

shrox wrote:
TM wrote:
shrox wrote:
TM wrote:
shrox wrote:
Plain and simple, we just don't know.

It's funny how people will project chances of existence for benevolent aliens off the Earth, but scoff at any chance of a benevolent god off the Earth.


The idea of a benevolent god doesn't "work" with the Earth we live on. If we use the Christian god with the characteristics of omni-benevolence, omnipotence and omniscience, these characteristics are inconsistent with the Earth on which we live, therefore such a god does not exist. Now, a benevolent god without omnipotence and omniscience is plausible, or rather cannot be refuted in the same manner, however without the power to do benevolent actions or the power to see where they are required at all times, that is not a being worthy of being called a god.

The idea of benevolent aliens is, believe it or not more plausible given the amount of planets that exist.


Did I say Christian god?


No, I used that to clarify the sentence that came after it, where I address the idea of a god that is simply benevolent. It depends entirely on what other characteristics your intended god has, Simply being benevolent doesn't make a creature a god, so there needs to be more information. If we take a god defined as "A being of supernatural powers or attributes" such a creature would have to, by definition have powers beyond what is possible within the natural realm. Whereas benevolent aliens are completely plausible within the natural realm.

The logic for that goes as follows:

If the universe has a planet that can support life, it can contain more than one planet that supports life.

The universe has a planet that can support life.

Therefore, the universe can contain more than one planet that can support life.

If life exists on earth, life can exist elsewhere in the universe.

Life exists on earth.

Therefore life can exist elsewhere in the universe.


Sorry, I was going to post this yesterday but the forums crashed on me.


Can life exist outside our universe? What would interactions with it be like? We can't reach it, but can it reach us?


It's possible that "life" exists outside of our universe, there could be parallel universes, multiple dimensions or quite a few other things. The interactions would depend on the form of life. Given enough technology and/or innate ability, crossing between parallel universes or dimensions may be possible.

However, none of that goes in any way towards a "god" if the ability comes from nature in that universe. It may seem god-like to us or even give the life-form abilities that literally makes it appear to be a god, however it's still not a god. It's the equivalent of doing a Maverick style Fly-by when they were building the Cheops pyramid.

A god would be a being that exists independent from natural causes and we know of no such beings that exist, we can theorize that they do but it can't be proved or disproved.



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06 Feb 2012, 1:58 pm

TM wrote:
shrox wrote:
Can life exist outside our universe? What would interactions with it be like? We can't reach it, but can it reach us?


It's possible that "life" exists outside of our universe, there could be parallel universes, multiple dimensions or quite a few other things. The interactions would depend on the form of life. Given enough technology and/or innate ability, crossing between parallel universes or dimensions may be possible.

However, none of that goes in any way towards a "god" if the ability comes from nature in that universe. It may seem god-like to us or even give the life-form abilities that literally makes it appear to be a god, however it's still not a god. It's the equivalent of doing a Maverick style Fly-by when they were building the Cheops pyramid.

A god would be a being that exists independent from natural causes and we know of no such beings that exist, we can theorize that they do but it can't be proved or disproved.


What is a god then? If other life in another dimensions does not have the same what is the difference between god and god-like?



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06 Feb 2012, 2:16 pm

shrox wrote:
TM wrote:
shrox wrote:
Can life exist outside our universe? What would interactions with it be like? We can't reach it, but can it reach us?


It's possible that "life" exists outside of our universe, there could be parallel universes, multiple dimensions or quite a few other things. The interactions would depend on the form of life. Given enough technology and/or innate ability, crossing between parallel universes or dimensions may be possible.

However, none of that goes in any way towards a "god" if the ability comes from nature in that universe. It may seem god-like to us or even give the life-form abilities that literally makes it appear to be a god, however it's still not a god. It's the equivalent of doing a Maverick style Fly-by when they were building the Cheops pyramid.

A god would be a being that exists independent from natural causes and we know of no such beings that exist, we can theorize that they do but it can't be proved or disproved.


What is a god then? If other life in another dimensions does not have the same what is the difference between god and god-like?


A god is defined as "1. a supernatural being, who is worshipped as the controller of some part of the universe or some aspect of life in the world or is the personification of some force". "Supernatural" means "beyond nature" so if a life-form comes from nature, it's by definition not a god.

Cortez and his Conquistadors were thought to be gods by the indigenous peoples of South America, they weren't but they were thought to be because of their much more advanced technology and different appearance.

You can't be a god and not be god-like, but you could appear god-like and not be a god.


Superman would appear god-like,



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06 Feb 2012, 2:19 pm

TM wrote:
...A god is defined as "1. a supernatural being, who is worshipped as the controller of some part of the universe or some aspect of life in the world or is the personification of some force". "Supernatural" means "beyond nature" so if a life-form comes from nature, it's by definition not a god.

Cortez and his Conquistadors were thought to be gods by the indigenous peoples of South America, they weren't but they were thought to be because of their much more advanced technology and different appearance.

You can't be a god and not be god-like, but you could appear god-like and not be a god.


Superman would appear god-like,


That definition is bias in that it assumes that people must exist for the god to exist. That's fine if you are an atheist, but not for those with the understanding.



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06 Feb 2012, 2:26 pm

Assigning the word "god" to anything but a god (as defined by TM) is pointless. If gods are simply extremely advanced aliens or extradimensional life forms, they are not gods imho. It is the same as calling the universe god, or the entire biosphere of our planet, or the sum of all human minds. You are merely renaming something entirely natural. Gods are supernatural by definition.



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06 Feb 2012, 2:37 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:
Assigning the word "god" to anything but a god (as defined by TM) is pointless. If gods are simply extremely advanced aliens or extradimensional life forms, they are not gods imho. It is the same as calling the universe god, or the entire biosphere of our planet, or the sum of all human minds. You are merely renaming something entirely natural. Gods are supernatural by definition.


I don't mean simply an extradimensional life form, I mean one that has an interest in us. Jesus even said repeatedly he was not from here:

"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

1611 King James Version of John 18:36

I don't think it's heresy to "classify" Jesus as an extradimensional life form, simply that he is the extradimensional life form of extradimensional life forms, The king of kings.



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06 Feb 2012, 4:11 pm

shrox wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
Assigning the word "god" to anything but a god (as defined by TM) is pointless. If gods are simply extremely advanced aliens or extradimensional life forms, they are not gods imho. It is the same as calling the universe god, or the entire biosphere of our planet, or the sum of all human minds. You are merely renaming something entirely natural. Gods are supernatural by definition.


I don't mean simply an extradimensional life form, I mean one that has an interest in us. Jesus even said repeatedly he was not from here:

"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

1611 King James Version of John 18:36

I don't think it's heresy to "classify" Jesus as an extradimensional life form, simply that he is the extradimensional life form of extradimensional life forms, The king of kings.


If we are speaking specifically about the Judeo-Christian god and Jesus now let me know because I can refute that pretty easily, it will take a lot of time though due to the sheer volume of evidence and the myriad of arguments that can be used.

An extra-dimensional life form can appear to be a god, I already conceded that point. However, in order to be an actual god a form of life would have to literally be beyond what can occur in nature. If "god" can come to exist through natural means and exist through natural means, then it's not a god, its a very very powerful natural being as opposed to a supernatural being.



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06 Feb 2012, 5:38 pm

Jono wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
Furthermore, the massive galaxy M87 has a jet of matter spewing out of its center that appears to be moving 6-8 times the speed of light. Some astrophysicists try to explain this away as an optical illusion caused by the curvature of space-time around the galaxy itself; but even that explanation is problematic because special relativity predicts that nothing can even appear to move faster than light since the speed of light is a universal reference frame in its own right!


Not some astrophysicists but all of them agree that this is an illusion but it's not due to the curvature of space-time. The jet is actually moving slower than light and is therefore not superluminal. In fact, no experiment or observation has ever shown anything to be traveling faster than light, other than the recent OPERA experiment at CERN which has yet to be verified.


I beg your pardon, but the theory of special relativity is based on the principle that the speed of light is the same in all reference frames(that is, the same for all observers). For something to give the illusion of moving faster than light to observers on Earth violates this fundamental principle of special relativity and ultimately undermines that notion that superluminal motion violates causality. This still however, does not imply that it's possible to travel faster than light by brute force.



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06 Feb 2012, 5:46 pm

The simplest explanation is presumably the best explanation, all other things being equal.

The reason why we have not seen an aliens is because none have arrived in this planet.

ruveyn



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06 Feb 2012, 5:54 pm

Aliens exist, yeah. The thing is, why would they travel LIGHTYEARS to get to us If they DID come that means they, unlike humans, aren't LAZY with creating technology. There are so many things I believe will work and will benifit both me and many people, but no one has even TRIED! PLUS, the aliens, chances are, won't even be humanoid!


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06 Feb 2012, 6:24 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The simplest explanation is presumably the best explanation, all other things being equal.

The reason why we have not seen an aliens is because none have arrived in this planet.

ruveyn


Not in recently enough to be remembered clearly if at all. Or before we even came along.

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06 Feb 2012, 6:28 pm

"Apes See a Tall Slab" is from a SCIENCE-FICTION movie that was based on a SCIENCE-FICTION book.

In other words, the claim that "Extraterrestrials were here so far in the past that they can not be remembered clearly, if at all" is speculation - pure, unmitigated speculation.

Only this, and nothing more.



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06 Feb 2012, 6:29 pm

I farted


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06 Feb 2012, 6:30 pm

Fnord wrote:
"Apes See a Tall Slab" is from a SCIENCE-FICTION movie that was based on a SCIENCE-FICTION book.

In other words, the claim that "Extraterrestrials were here so far in the past that they can not be remembered clearly, if at all" is speculation - pure, unmitigated speculation.

Only this, and nothing more.


Good god man, can you see nothing as a metaphor?! Geez!