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Is genocide justified when it comes to psychopaths?

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Should psychopaths be eliminated?
No, they are people too 83%  83%  [ 24 ]
Yes, they are dangerous and worthless 17%  17%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 29

Keyman
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26 Feb 2012, 9:45 pm

eigerpere wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Psychological studies and findings disagree with your absolute statement.


I honestly don't care. :)


But reality does it's thing no matter if you believe in it or not.. :P



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26 Feb 2012, 9:46 pm

eigerpere wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
eigerpere wrote:
Psychological findings and studies are proven inaccurate all the time and they get more funds in order to make new findings, etc. Clinicians get it wrong often and a finding doesn't necessarily prove something. It's just a study and a finding.


Biologists, geneticists and ethologists have found the same though. The environment literally turns genes on or off. Our brains interact with the environment as well. What we commonly call instinct is in fact so-called prepared learning, i.e. readily available neurological pathways that are potentiated (activated) by environmental factors.

That doesn't absolve criminals from their actions, but it means that we can prevent crime by altering social conditions such as poverty, inequality, and dysfunctional family environments.


Look, there is a lot we don't understand yet about the brain and how it works so until those are actual proven facts we are speculating and that's all any of this really amounts too. There are too many factors to consider and pushing your premise doesn't prove anything so give it a rest.


There are things that we don't understand, but epigenetics and prepared learning happen to be well researched and understood. You might want to read up on these topics before you mistakenly claim that these aren't proven facts.



Last edited by CrazyCatLord on 26 Feb 2012, 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

eigerpere
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26 Feb 2012, 9:46 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:
eigerpere wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
Speaking of picking up the tab: What about corporate entities that harm society and meet the criteria of psychopathy? Since corporations are legal persons, shouldn't the psychopaths among them be put out of their misery?


If you read this thread you would know that I don't agree with killing criminals, so why put me under attack?


That wasn't directed at you, but at the thread in general.


Well, I'm referring to being attacked here with three people at least who are in my face and have obvious problems they can't resolve.



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26 Feb 2012, 9:47 pm

eigerpere wrote:
Well, I'm referring to being attacked here with three people at least who are in my face and have obvious problems they can't resolve.


Nobody attacks you. People disagree with your non-factual opinion.



eigerpere
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26 Feb 2012, 9:52 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:
eigerpere wrote:
Well, I'm referring to being attacked here with three people at least who are in my face and have obvious problems they can't resolve.


Nobody attacks you. People disagree with your non-factual opinion.


As I said before I'm speaking merely from my person experience and observations and could care less about your so-called facts.



CrazyCatLord
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26 Feb 2012, 10:31 pm

eigerpere wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
eigerpere wrote:
Well, I'm referring to being attacked here with three people at least who are in my face and have obvious problems they can't resolve.


Nobody attacks you. People disagree with your non-factual opinion.


As I said before I'm speaking merely from my person experience and observations and could care less about your so-called facts.


And yet you made sweeping generalizations like "People are born the way they are".

I wasn't born the way that I am now. I was a tiny infant that knew next to nothing about this world. My frontal lobe, which controls my reasoning abilities, personality and problem solving strategies, wasn't fully developed until age 25. And even after that point, my brain function was altered by the environment. For example, I developed social anxiety and avoidance strategies due to continuous peer abuse that changed the way in which my amygdala works. I wasn't born with this condition.

Nobody is born with a fully formed brain. It is just another organ that is at risk from environmental hazards.



eigerpere
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26 Feb 2012, 10:39 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:
eigerpere wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
eigerpere wrote:
Well, I'm referring to being attacked here with three people at least who are in my face and have obvious problems they can't resolve.


Nobody attacks you. People disagree with your non-factual opinion.


As I said before I'm speaking merely from my person experience and observations and could care less about your so-called facts.


And yet you made sweeping generalizations like "People are born the way they are".

I wasn't born the way that I am now. I was a tiny infant that knew next to nothing about this world. My frontal lobe, which controls my reasoning abilities, personality and problem solving strategies, wasn't fully developed until age 25. And even after that point, my brain function was altered by the environment. For example, I developed social anxiety and avoidance strategies due to continuous peer abuse that changed the way in which my amygdala works. I wasn't born with this condition.

Nobody is born with a fully formed brain. It is just another organ that is at risk from environmental hazards.


My brain functions were altered too due to environmental factors. Those same environmental factors appear to affect someone else very differently. I don't want to argue whatever it is you have issue with. You can draw your conclusions and so can I. I'm not trying to force mine on you and would appreciate it if you would not try to force yours on me.



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26 Feb 2012, 11:41 pm

But without psychopaths who is going to rule our countries?


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Keyman
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26 Feb 2012, 11:45 pm

People without the drive to make other peoples lives a misery?



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27 Feb 2012, 1:54 am

Cyanide wrote:
Keyman wrote:
It might be psychopathy or it might be an unstable upbringing. Many people that does things like this usually has a short fuse, anger management problem. The kid in question is brought up with many siblings in a poor area with little care. Not the best environment. But sure, he might be a danger to other kids.

The murderer in question was 10 years old. He's old enough to know exactly what he's doing. Torturing and killing animals at that age is the sign of a future serial killer, but he's already murdered another human being. 10 year old children don't kill people because of a "bad upbringing". They do it because they're completely psychotic to the core. People like that child have absolutely no place in a civilized society. The article didn't say if the child felt remorse, but I highly doubt he did.


According to psychology this is actually not the case, a 10 year old childs brain is still very much developing, they have note even reached adolescence yet. Also how do you know this 10 year old knew what he was doing? is there an interview with the 10 year old.


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27 Feb 2012, 1:57 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Difficult question:

1) Are psychopaths people? Yes and no. They lack many essential human qualities but have others. (Note: Psychopathy isn't just a matter of situations. It is true that many people show psychopathic traits in certain situations, but psychopaths have to lack certain human qualities and express others very strongly as a matter of personality to be considered a psychopath)
2) Are there more humane options? Unknown. Locking them away forever is not necessarily more humane. Either you're going to keep them in isolation, which is cruel, OR you're going to put them around other people, which is also cruel. If we identify a person as an irredeemable psychopath, this may be the most reasonable thing. (Some uncertainty can exist because it is not clear that all psychopaths are equally dangerous to society, as a lot of the danger really also stems from impulse control issues.)
3) Is implementing this possible? Unknown. There are a lot of risks, and so any effort would have to be very well-designed. It probably would not be worth it, because while in a war we are willing to accept massive institutions with great control over our lives, this is not a war.

Finally, is calling this "genocide" terrible? No. I think that the only reason to bring this up is some bit of petty over-focus on words. It's not so clearly eugenics because the OP didn't say "end the spread of psychopathic genes" nor did they take a position on nature v. nurture. Also, "genocide" is probably the best term for describing a mass murder based upon a set of certain traits with the right kind of emotional connotations, and yes, one can make a strained argument that psychopaths are psychologically divergent enough to constitute their own sub-group within humanity.



I don't know trying to determine how human someone is based on how their brain works seems a little Nazi like, I mean where would it end. And how would we know its not psychopaths who end up doing the killing and redefine psychopathy...mass murder is simply not a very good idea.


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27 Feb 2012, 2:39 am

You can't punish someone unless they have a committed a crime.

There are plenty of psychopaths who never break the law. Some are emotionally abusive, but if they have not broken a law, you still cannot punish them.

From what I have read (not sure if this is actually true or not), some psychopaths make a rational choice to do the "right thing" because they rationally know it is in their own best interest.

Is this is actually true or just nonsense or is this just wool being thrown over people's eyes? I mean, in my mind a good psychopath is an oxymoron, and if a person is a good psychopath they have the wrong label in the first place and should get a new diagnosis.



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27 Feb 2012, 3:00 am

I think this article explains it pretty well.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/723848

Psychopaths know right from wrong, they just lack the wiring to care.

Sadly, this is not their own fault.

They definitely don't deserve pity, but one could actually make an argument that a psychopath who never breaks the law is actually very moral in comparison to a non-psychopath who kills out of envy and jealousy.

Personally, I don't really believe this, but I am giving my PC response here.



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27 Feb 2012, 3:20 am

Like you said, most psychopaths don't break the law or commit crimes they can be punished for in most instances. In essence they are cowards preying on those who are most vulnerable and susceptible. They wreck havoc in other people's lives and get away with it because mental abuse isn't punishable by law and very hard to prove in the first place. They lie and play mind games and have no conscience whatsoever for the harm they cause. I don't see any purpose in people like that and I don't see any benefit to having them around. If there was a way to erase them from the face of the earth, I'd be all for it but there isn't. We have to deal with these imbeciles whether we like it or not. Think of the wolf in a sheep outfit. They're good at lying and manipulating others. They're very charismatic and charming. And people on the spectrum are especially vulnerable to people like that when they don't suspect because it's so foreign to who they are. If anyone takes offense to this, too bad. It's just my opinion of this group of people. They can be very lovable and charming people but they aren't worth the damage they cause.



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27 Feb 2012, 3:32 am

eigerpere wrote:
Like you said, most psychopaths don't break the law or commit crimes they can be punished for in most instances. In essence they are cowards preying on those who are most vulnerable and susceptible. They wreck havoc in other people's lives and get away with it because mental abuse isn't punishable by law and very hard to prove in the first place. They lie and play mind games and have no conscience whatsoever for the harm they cause. I don't see any purpose in people like that and I don't see any benefit to having them around. If there was a way to erase them from the face of the earth, I'd be all for it but there isn't. We have to deal with these imbeciles whether we like it or not. Think of the wolf in a sheep outfit. They're good at lying and manipulating others. They're very charismatic and charming. And people on the spectrum are especially vulnerable to people like that when they don't suspect because it's so foreign to who they are. If anyone takes offense to this, too bad. It's just my opinion of this group of people. They can be very lovable and charming people but they aren't worth the damage they cause.


Thank you for saying what I was too afraid to say. I think it is dangerous to give these points of view bluntly online but I will take some of the burden off of you, lol. :)

Forigiveness and love is a powerful weapon against psychopaths but only at a distance. Up front and in person, but the best weapon is to stay away. Sorry but if a person is a likable psychopath, then they are either not a true psychopath or they have not yet revealed their dark side to you.

I mean, I'm not saying they should be killed obviously, but are they worthy of being a friend?? Umm, I don't know, I don't really think so, not unless they are family. Sorry if that is harsh, but I imagine a true psychopath wouldn't actually be offended by these words and that is why I say it.



eigerpere
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27 Feb 2012, 3:46 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:
eigerpere wrote:
Like you said, most psychopaths don't break the law or commit crimes they can be punished for in most instances. In essence they are cowards preying on those who are most vulnerable and susceptible. They wreck havoc in other people's lives and get away with it because mental abuse isn't punishable by law and very hard to prove in the first place. They lie and play mind games and have no conscience whatsoever for the harm they cause. I don't see any purpose in people like that and I don't see any benefit to having them around. If there was a way to erase them from the face of the earth, I'd be all for it but there isn't. We have to deal with these imbeciles whether we like it or not. Think of the wolf in a sheep outfit. They're good at lying and manipulating others. They're very charismatic and charming. And people on the spectrum are especially vulnerable to people like that when they don't suspect because it's so foreign to who they are. If anyone takes offense to this, too bad. It's just my opinion of this group of people. They can be very lovable and charming people but they aren't worth the damage they cause.


Thank you for saying what I was too afraid to say. I think it is dangerous to give these points of view bluntly online but I will take some of the burden off of you, lol. :)

Forigiveness and love is a powerful weapon against psychopaths but only at a distance. Up front and in person, but the best weapon is to stay away. Sorry but if a person is a likable psychopath, then they are either not a true psychopath or they have not yet revealed their dark side to you.

I mean, I'm not saying they should be killed obviously, but are they worthy of being a friend?? Umm, I don't know, I don't really think so, not unless they are family. Sorry if that is harsh, but I imagine a true psychopath wouldn't actually be offended by these words and that is why I say it.


Psychopaths are very likable, it's a big part of their arsenal and how they manipulate others. I don't feel it necessary to worry about offending them when they have no conscience for their actions or concern about the harm they cause.