Personhood and Abortion

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"You're not a person until I can find you in the phone book" Bill Hicks.

None of those arguments have been refuted. You might think they have but you're lying to yourself. Show me once instance in all of recorded history where a skin cell, left on its own, will naturally follow the entire human lifecycle. Develop into a child, adolescent, adult, etc.

Show me evidence that an undeveloped zygote will contribute more to society than its mother.

We can play this game all day.

Show me an 8 week old zygote that follows the human lifecycle without the mother acting as a nutrient delivery system and incubator. The zygote left on its own (without the mother) would have about as big a chance at going through the human lifecycle as the skin cell.

What point are you trying to make? A zygote is never aborted (other than with pills) because a woman has no clue she's even pregnant when it's at that stage. If you're going to try to defend your position, at least try to use points that aren't laughable.

Let me ask an open question to all the pro-lifers here.

How does it impact your life if someone gets an abortion? Don't dance around the question, don't give me some haphazard BS. No one cares your beliefs on this issue. The issue is HOW DOES IT IMPACT YOUR LIFE. What impact does an abortion have on your life that makes you feel so strongly about it?

The right to live does not include the right to live inside another person's body, feed off of them and cause physical changes to them. That is the reason that I am pro choice. If a woman just laid an egg and it only had to be sat on, then I would be against breaking it open to prevent the development of the baby. However, it's in her body, so she has the right to decide. Her rights supercede the baby's in this situation.

this is incorrect. Zygotes are quite frequently spontaneously aborted without any consicous effort by the mother at all.

agreed- but you also couldn't force her to be the one to sit on the egg until it hatched.

Heat lamps work wonders. I hatched a few bird eggs I found with one once.

This may seem very controversial. But it at least is worth examining. I watch CSI once and Grissom quoted Leviticus 17:11 - Life is in the blood. If blood does not enter the fetus until the 22nd day there is not life there. (Per the Bible as life is in the blood). Also and interesting science concept. I am not a religious person myself but I do find the facts interesting.

Comments? What do you think? I think there is a You Tube video clip about this episode if you Goggle it.


“for the life of a creature is in the blood…” [leviticus 17.11 (NIV)]

grissom concluded by saying that if the religious right would understand their scriptures and proper science, then they would know that life doesn’t begin at conception but rather the 22nd day when the fetus is filled with blood for the first time.

Thats right. However, anyone can sit on the egg until it hatches. That way the pro lifers could spend their time doing it.

Even though I believe abortion should always be legal, because the baby is in the mother's body and her rights supercede the baby's, I do not believe abortion is always the moral decision to make. What is moral and what is legal are many times two different things. It is illegal for me to exceed the speed limit by 20 mph but if I have someone in the car who may be having a sudden heart attack, then it is moral for me to do so to get them to the hospital quickly. So, nothing is cut and dried really. You can easily say that abortion isn't moral, but I don't believe that it's as easy to say that it shouldn't be legal and that the baby has more rights than the mother.

Am I batshit crazy* for not seeing any moral issues surrounding abortion before third trimester? Seriously, I see nothing wrong with it.

Should I get refund on my moral compass?


*Of course, I am batshit crazy anyway, but I meant regarding this particular issue.

Potential, potential!

You will have to admit that for any good thing there is potential for in a sperm/egg/zygote there is also negative potential. It can work both ways.

Surely,
Could be a surgeon or a car hijacker.
Could be a Christian or an atheist
Could be homosexual
Could be Bill Gates or an irrelevant person you never hear of
That unborn may one day become the next Martin Luther King... Could also be the next Hitler.
A psychopath? So much potential for this, 1% of the population is one. This means that for every 100 abortions that are stopped by making them illegal, 1 psychopath will be walking the streets.

So much potential.

Well, there is a 50% chance it is a boy zygote!

Maybe that's the whole deal about this.

It doesn't directly affect my life anymore than the Columbine shooting effected it. It indirectly affects my life by showing an extreme disregard to human life in general which I could easily see having a negative impact on my life later on.

being against abortion shows a reckless disregard of rights as well, just not those of the fetus.(i debate when they receive what rights in this example they have been granted only for comunication purposes)

then comes all the suffering after birth that will ensue if they dont have caring parents to provide for them.