Who was a good leader/president in your country.

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ruveyn
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07 Jun 2012, 4:06 pm

duncvis wrote:

This post should be distributed to anyone who considers extreme 'libertarianism' to be sane and logical - you just compared the destitute to vampires for crying out loud. That is one SERIOUSLY warped moral compass dude - I cannot comprehend your choice of priorities at all. Shame on you, you clearly have no feeling for other human beings if you cannot understand why this is screwed up. Thank god such ideas have no credibility outside a few derided loons on this side of the Atlantic.

I love MY children. I don't love YOUR children. My first concern is me and mine.

ruveyn

duncvis
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07 Jun 2012, 4:17 pm

ruveyn wrote:

My only concern is me and mine.

ruveyn

I think this is what you, and the other affronted taxpayers, mean really. Its to be hoped you and yours never need help from anyone else.

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AstroGeek
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07 Jun 2012, 6:32 pm

duncvis wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

My only concern is me and mine.

ruveyn

I think this is what you, and the other affronted taxpayers, mean really. Its to be hoped you and yours never need help from anyone else.

Really? Perhaps it would create a bit of empathy.

Pfft! Who am I kidding?

ruveyn
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07 Jun 2012, 7:35 pm

duncvis wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

My only concern is me and mine.

ruveyn

I think this is what you, and the other affronted taxpayers, mean really. Its to be hoped you and yours never need help from anyone else.

Leave what I say intact, you dolt!

If I meant that I would have said that. I care for others to the extent that their interests and mine coincide. I am -rationally- selfish. I also do not change other people's quotes. That is intellectually dishonest.

ruveyn

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07 Jun 2012, 8:26 pm

ruveyn wrote:

duncvis wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

My only concern is me and mine.

ruveyn

I think this is what you, and the other affronted taxpayers, mean really. Its to be hoped you and yours never need help from anyone else.

Come now, ruveyn. This is a common rhetorical technique on online forums. The intention is not to put words in your mouth but to offer what they view as a more accurate portrayal of your beliefs. Also, may I remind you of this gem you left a while back:

ruveyn wrote:

I will always show good manners to non-hostile strangers. Good manners are more important than ethics.

Old Post
You can check and see that I haven't altered this other than omitting some unrelated (to this situation) content that came before it in the post.

You frequently display incredible rudeness to people on here, with a particularly good example being your treatment of Kraichgauer with regards to the Holocaust and his German heritage. Either you are dishonest or you have an incredibly low threshold for what you think makes someone hostile.

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07 Jun 2012, 9:22 pm

Rocky wrote:

Joker wrote:

Here is my list of United States Presidents that I liked.

1. George Washington.
2. FDR
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. Bill Clinton
5. JFK
6. Thomas Jefferson
7.Andrew Jackson

You probably are not aware of the fact that Andrew Jackson is responsible for one of the worst atrocities perpetrated on the Native Americans by the US government. Do a search for the "Trail of Tears" for the details. Jackson even ignored the orders of the Supreme Court to do this.

I am surprised to see you include Thomas Jefferson on your list, since he evolved from being a Deist to being an Atheist. I would count that in his favor, but you probably would not.

Theodore Roosevelt would be high on my list, along with FDR. For one thing, Teddy stood up to business excesses, like monopolies. FDR helped get us out of the Depression and win WWII.

Of course I knew those things about Andrew Jackson. I am a half/breed cherokee I might add.

Another good leader I didn't mention was Otto Von Bismarck and Michael Collins.

ruveyn
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07 Jun 2012, 11:46 pm

AstroGeek wrote:

You frequently display incredible rudeness to people on here, with a particularly good example being your treatment of Kraichgauer with regards to the Holocaust and his German heritage. Either you are dishonest or you have an incredibly low threshold for what you think makes someone hostile.

Ask Kraichgauer if he took offense. Talking frankly to someone with the intelligence to listen is not bad manners. It is frank discussion.

ruveyn

duncvis
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08 Jun 2012, 5:08 am

ruveyn wrote:

I also do not change other people's quotes. That is intellectually dishonest.

ruveyn

bollocks it is. I made it perfectly clear that these were not the words you typed. My intent, as I'm sure you know, was as AstroGeek surmised:

AstroGeek wrote:

This is a common rhetorical technique on online forums. The intention is not to put words in your mouth but to offer what they view as a more accurate portrayal of your beliefs.

Returning to your other point:

ruveyn wrote:

I care for others to the extent that their interests and mine coincide. I am -rationally- selfish.

I don't see that this alters your position much - following this line of reasoning and your oft expressed ideological views, you care only for your self-interest - as you say, this is selfish. This may be rational, in the same way that closing down a town's main source of employment because it isn't making some rich folk far away richer, but it is not a pleasant characteristic - at least you're being honest about it, rather than pretending you give a damn about those whose misfortune doesn't directly affect you. You've stated your view. I've expressed why I find it repellent. At this point we're just nitpicking, so I don't really have anything else to add.

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NeueZiel
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08 Jun 2012, 6:40 am

This topic should be changed to "who is a politician you like that was secretly corrupt/did bad things", would be more fitting.

My fav presidents are JFK and FDR, by far. I think Lyndon Johnson is one of the worst, caused tons of people to die in the Vietnam War because of his poor handling of it that caused the conflict to drag on and on forever.

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08 Jun 2012, 9:26 am

NeueZiel wrote:

I find it interesting that JFK is one of your favorites and Johnson (his former vice president) is your idea of the worst president. Kennedy liked him enough that he believed that Johnson should be president if he died; why do you disagree with your favorite president? Didn't Kennedy get us involved in Vietnam in the first place?

Not trying to call you out. But I am curious about how you've come to such seemingly contradictory conclusions.

NeueZiel
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08 Jun 2012, 10:37 am

JWC wrote:

NeueZiel wrote:

I just do. Lyndon Johnson just handled the war very poorly and conducted it in such a way that endangered more US lives. I don't think LJ is the worst president ever, I've just read books about the Vietnam war and he handled it very poorly, not allowing airstrikes of certain sites for arbitrary reasons, not allowing the bombing of runways etc. I could go into detail but I doubt people would care much and just call me a war monger anyways.

Joker
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08 Jun 2012, 12:44 pm

Gerry Adams the leader of Sinn Fein a left-wing Irish Repbulican party in Northern Ireland and The Repbulican of Ireland.

AstroGeek
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08 Jun 2012, 3:04 pm

ruveyn wrote:

AstroGeek wrote:

Ask Kraichgauer if he took offense. Talking frankly to someone with the intelligence to listen is not bad manners. It is frank discussion.

ruveyn

Well, keep in mind that you can't hear inflection online. What might sound fine and reasonable in person can easily be interpreted as rude or insulting.

Joker
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08 Jun 2012, 3:37 pm

Robert E Lee

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08 Jun 2012, 3:42 pm

ruveyn wrote:

duncvis wrote:

Clement Attlee.

He inflicted Britain with INGSOC (English Socialism). You can always spot Brits who lived under INGSOC. Look at their teeth. The NHS destroyed dentistry in Britain.

ruveyn

Actually, the opposite is true.

After Labour decided to ditch NHS dentistry, people's oral health plummeted in Britain.

Keep up ruveyn. :wink:

ICY
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08 Jun 2012, 5:22 pm

gemstone123 wrote:

Hmm if I think about it I would say Winston Churchill and Clement Attlee.

Agreed, I would also add the following.

Tony Blair: He made a number of positive reforms, and didn’t see British foreign policy as being a one or the other choice between the EU and the USA. That said he did get far too close to George Bush Sr.

Harold Wilson: He kept the UK out of the Vietnam War, although his actions on Northern Ireland weren’t so effective.

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