Great wars past and present.
13 Jun 2012, 10:59 am
I think that for most Nazis (like the artist which drew this ugly cartoon) Communism, Liberalism and Democracy are all parts of a jewis conspiracy.
I think that they thought that there isn't any difference between Communism, Liberalism and Democracy.
The "Dolchstoßlegende" was invented by Paul von Hindenburg a general in WW1 and later until his death Reichspräsident (president) of Germany (between 1924 and 1934). The "Dolchstoßlegende" was not only against Communism and Jews. It was mainly against the young German democracy.
I think that after two World Wars everybody see the results of nationalism. I hope that no one forgets this.
A nationalistic dictationship and mass murders is and was not only possible in Germany or Europe, no it could happen anywhere in the world.
But I'm optimistic that the humanity is intelligent enough to dislike any kind of nationalism.
Quote:
ruveyn wrote:
Germany. What a country! It took two wars with France and two world Wars to get them straightened out at last. All is well that ends well. Germany is now a sane and efficient nations -- at long last!
Germany. What a country! It took two wars with France and two world Wars to get them straightened out at last. All is well that ends well. Germany is now a sane and efficient nations -- at long last!
I want to mention that the first war with France wasn't caused by Germany.
The WW1 was in large parts but not only caused by Germany.
Sweetleaf
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13 Jun 2012, 11:46 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
WW1 is always fun, As far as I can tell it didn't accomplish anything other than causing lots of death and destruction and even laid the foundation for the problems that led to WW2.
The war historians have called needless, and which any of the European leaders could have stopped.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
And the sad thing is it's true.....they probably could have or maybe they should have battled it out themselves instead of sending half their young male population to do it for them and be killed and/or f*cked up for life. Yeah not a very good part of history but certainly intresting.
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Sweetleaf
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13 Jun 2012, 11:48 am
Aelfwine wrote:
I think that for most Nazis (like the artist which drew this ugly cartoon) Communism, Liberalism and Democracy are all parts of a jewis conspiracy.
I think that they thought that there isn't any difference between Communism, Liberalism and Democracy.
The "Dolchstoßlegende" was invented by Paul von Hindenburg a general in WW1 and later until his death Reichspräsident (president) of Germany (between 1924 and 1934). The "Dolchstoßlegende" was not only against Communism and Jews. It was mainly against the young German democracy.
I think that after two World Wars everybody see the results of nationalism. I hope that no one forgets this.
A nationalistic dictationship and mass murders is and was not only possible in Germany or Europe, no it could happen anywhere in the world.
But I'm optimistic that the humanity is intelligent enough to dislike any kind of nationalism.
I want to mention that the first war with France wasn't caused by Germany.
The WW1 was in large parts but not only caused by Germany.
I think that they thought that there isn't any difference between Communism, Liberalism and Democracy.
The "Dolchstoßlegende" was invented by Paul von Hindenburg a general in WW1 and later until his death Reichspräsident (president) of Germany (between 1924 and 1934). The "Dolchstoßlegende" was not only against Communism and Jews. It was mainly against the young German democracy.
I think that after two World Wars everybody see the results of nationalism. I hope that no one forgets this.
A nationalistic dictationship and mass murders is and was not only possible in Germany or Europe, no it could happen anywhere in the world.
But I'm optimistic that the humanity is intelligent enough to dislike any kind of nationalism.
Quote:
ruveyn wrote:
Germany. What a country! It took two wars with France and two world Wars to get them straightened out at last. All is well that ends well. Germany is now a sane and efficient nations -- at long last!
Germany. What a country! It took two wars with France and two world Wars to get them straightened out at last. All is well that ends well. Germany is now a sane and efficient nations -- at long last!
I want to mention that the first war with France wasn't caused by Germany.
The WW1 was in large parts but not only caused by Germany.
I thought it was over an assasination not nessisarily the entire nation of Germany.....as well as a bunch of other political drama and secret treaties and deals the politicians of various countries had in secret with each other. I guess I don't see how it was more Germany than the other nations involved.
_________________
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13 Jun 2012, 12:46 pm
Quote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I thought it was over an assasination not nessisarily the entire nation of Germany.....as well as a bunch of other political drama and secret treaties and deals the politicians of various countries had in secret with each other. I guess I don't see how it was more Germany than the other nations involved.
I thought it was over an assasination not nessisarily the entire nation of Germany.....as well as a bunch of other political drama and secret treaties and deals the politicians of various countries had in secret with each other. I guess I don't see how it was more Germany than the other nations involved.
The Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria was the "Casus Belli" but not the really reason for war.
Nearly every nation in Europe was nationalistic and imperialistic.
Each country was interested in starting a war. (for example for France to win back Alsace or for Germany to win a supremacy in Europe)
But I think the most idiotic mistakes were made by the German emperor Wilhelm II. . He cancelled a pact with russia and destroyed Bismarcks intelligent politic. With his dreams to become a sea power, Great Britain become angry. So France got Allies.
And there was a third fundamental mistake.
In the conflicts in the Balkans he said that Germany would support in every situation Austria. No matter what situation.
Than after the assasination, Austria had no problems to start the war against Serbia and Russia because they felt safe with the German support.
Than nobody tried to mediate between the countries and four years of war was the result.
13 Jun 2012, 12:47 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aelfwine wrote:
I think that for most Nazis (like the artist which drew this ugly cartoon) Communism, Liberalism and Democracy are all parts of a jewis conspiracy.
I think that they thought that there isn't any difference between Communism, Liberalism and Democracy.
The "Dolchstoßlegende" was invented by Paul von Hindenburg a general in WW1 and later until his death Reichspräsident (president) of Germany (between 1924 and 1934). The "Dolchstoßlegende" was not only against Communism and Jews. It was mainly against the young German democracy.
I think that after two World Wars everybody see the results of nationalism. I hope that no one forgets this.
A nationalistic dictationship and mass murders is and was not only possible in Germany or Europe, no it could happen anywhere in the world.
But I'm optimistic that the humanity is intelligent enough to dislike any kind of nationalism.
I want to mention that the first war with France wasn't caused by Germany.
The WW1 was in large parts but not only caused by Germany.
I think that they thought that there isn't any difference between Communism, Liberalism and Democracy.
The "Dolchstoßlegende" was invented by Paul von Hindenburg a general in WW1 and later until his death Reichspräsident (president) of Germany (between 1924 and 1934). The "Dolchstoßlegende" was not only against Communism and Jews. It was mainly against the young German democracy.
I think that after two World Wars everybody see the results of nationalism. I hope that no one forgets this.
A nationalistic dictationship and mass murders is and was not only possible in Germany or Europe, no it could happen anywhere in the world.
But I'm optimistic that the humanity is intelligent enough to dislike any kind of nationalism.
Quote:
ruveyn wrote:
Germany. What a country! It took two wars with France and two world Wars to get them straightened out at last. All is well that ends well. Germany is now a sane and efficient nations -- at long last!
Germany. What a country! It took two wars with France and two world Wars to get them straightened out at last. All is well that ends well. Germany is now a sane and efficient nations -- at long last!
I want to mention that the first war with France wasn't caused by Germany.
The WW1 was in large parts but not only caused by Germany.
I thought it was over an assasination not nessisarily the entire nation of Germany.....as well as a bunch of other political drama and secret treaties and deals the politicians of various countries had in secret with each other. I guess I don't see how it was more Germany than the other nations involved.
Over an assassination, but not because of it. Everyone was looking for a fight. The French wanted Alsace-Lorraine, the Austro-Hungarians and Germans wanted to take down Russia before it could industrialise, the Russians wanted the Straits, the Ottomans wanted true independance, the Balkan countries wanted to continue where they had stopped in 1913, the British didn't care what happened too much so long as there wasn't a single hegemonic power on the continent (yet didn't say they would defend Belgian indepedance until it was too late).
Everyone thought it would be quick. Even though the results proved them wrong, they had good reasons to think that way: the most recent wars between European powers had been won by Prussia within weeks (or by Russia still very quickly, if you count the war of 1877), two wars had been waged in the Balkans, all decisive within weeks, just as was the Italo-Turkish war, militarily at least (there were rebels to suppress in Lybia). Indeed, if the French hadn't stopped the Germans on the Marne, the Great War would not have gone far into 1915. We see a parallel between the absurd bloodshed of the First World War and the American Civil War today, but it is quite artificial. Only after the decision was not reached early on did the war become mutual slaughter -- just like the Second World War started to be a deathtrap in 1941, after the first failed Biltzkrieg offensive, where before victory or defeat was moral rather than physical.
Last edited by enrico_dandolo on 13 Jun 2012, 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joker
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Sweetleaf
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13 Jun 2012, 1:22 pm
Aelfwine wrote:
Quote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I thought it was over an assasination not nessisarily the entire nation of Germany.....as well as a bunch of other political drama and secret treaties and deals the politicians of various countries had in secret with each other. I guess I don't see how it was more Germany than the other nations involved.
I thought it was over an assasination not nessisarily the entire nation of Germany.....as well as a bunch of other political drama and secret treaties and deals the politicians of various countries had in secret with each other. I guess I don't see how it was more Germany than the other nations involved.
The Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria was the "Casus Belli" but not the really reason for war.
Nearly every nation in Europe was nationalistic and imperialistic.
Each country was interested in starting a war. (for example for France to win back Alsace or for Germany to win a supremacy in Europe)
But I think the most idiotic mistakes were made by the German emperor Wilhelm II. . He cancelled a pact with russia and destroyed Bismarcks intelligent politic. With his dreams to become a sea power, Great Britain become angry. So France got Allies.
And there was a third fundamental mistake.
In the conflicts in the Balkans he said that Germany would support in every situation Austria. No matter what situation.
Than after the assasination, Austria had no problems to start the war against Serbia and Russia because they felt safe with the German support.
Than nobody tried to mediate between the countries and four years of war was the result.
Well I know it wasn't the reason...I meant it was part of what started the whole mess, There was a lot of other factors as well so many I don't remember them all. Also what about all the secret treaties countries besides germany had of a simular nature, from my understanding germany wasn't the only one breaking pacts...though I am not entirely sure as I havn't really brushed up on the facts since I was in highschool and my English teacher thought we should read a novel about it in class and for the following weeks if I hadn't known it was an english class i would have assumed it was college history course on WW1. But yeah that does all seem rather stupid, even so if so much blame had not been put on the entire country of Germany even the citizens that had nothing to do with the stupidity of their leader WW2 might not have happened. But its history so it can't be changed we can hope there's not a WW3 though but I would not be entirely suprised if there is.
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We won't go back.
13 Jun 2012, 3:10 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aelfwine wrote:
Quote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I thought it was over an assasination not nessisarily the entire nation of Germany.....as well as a bunch of other political drama and secret treaties and deals the politicians of various countries had in secret with each other. I guess I don't see how it was more Germany than the other nations involved.
I thought it was over an assasination not nessisarily the entire nation of Germany.....as well as a bunch of other political drama and secret treaties and deals the politicians of various countries had in secret with each other. I guess I don't see how it was more Germany than the other nations involved.
The Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria was the "Casus Belli" but not the really reason for war.
Nearly every nation in Europe was nationalistic and imperialistic.
Each country was interested in starting a war. (for example for France to win back Alsace or for Germany to win a supremacy in Europe)
But I think the most idiotic mistakes were made by the German emperor Wilhelm II. . He cancelled a pact with russia and destroyed Bismarcks intelligent politic. With his dreams to become a sea power, Great Britain become angry. So France got Allies.
And there was a third fundamental mistake.
In the conflicts in the Balkans he said that Germany would support in every situation Austria. No matter what situation.
Than after the assasination, Austria had no problems to start the war against Serbia and Russia because they felt safe with the German support.
Than nobody tried to mediate between the countries and four years of war was the result.
Well I know it wasn't the reason...I meant it was part of what started the whole mess, There was a lot of other factors as well so many I don't remember them all. Also what about all the secret treaties countries besides germany had of a simular nature, from my understanding germany wasn't the only one breaking pacts...though I am not entirely sure as I havn't really brushed up on the facts since I was in highschool and my English teacher thought we should read a novel about it in class and for the following weeks if I hadn't known it was an english class i would have assumed it was college history course on WW1. But yeah that does all seem rather stupid, even so if so much blame had not been put on the entire country of Germany even the citizens that had nothing to do with the stupidity of their leader WW2 might not have happened. But its history so it can't be changed we can hope there's not a WW3 though but I would not be entirely suprised if there is.
Funny... I just saw "Nicholas and Alexandra" on the local classic movie channel- a major motion picture based on the history bestseller of the same name - dramatizing the end of the Romanovs.
They show a situation room in which the czar is wieghing how to respond to the assassination crises. And makes the Russian Czar seem atleast as foolish as the Kaiser.A minister played by Lawrence Oliver pleas with the czar not to go to war because "the germans have a hundred factories for every one we have... " and a litany of other russian weaknesses. Both the Kaiser and the Czar should have reigned in their smaller allies and talked things over with each other. But instead both allowed the tail to wag the dog and got dragged into war by their smaller allies. Or thats how it looks in the movie.
Joker
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13 Jun 2012, 3:24 pm
It wasn't too long along when Europeans came to America and usurped the land. They've displaced the natives; everything achieved since then has been ill gotten gains. Now the children of the natives, the Mexicans, are coming back home to roost. In other words, what comes around goes around.
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His blog: http://seattlewordsmith.wordpress.com/
Kraichgauer
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13 Jun 2012, 4:07 pm
enrico_dandolo wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aelfwine wrote:
I think that for most Nazis (like the artist which drew this ugly cartoon) Communism, Liberalism and Democracy are all parts of a jewis conspiracy.
I think that they thought that there isn't any difference between Communism, Liberalism and Democracy.
The "Dolchstoßlegende" was invented by Paul von Hindenburg a general in WW1 and later until his death Reichspräsident (president) of Germany (between 1924 and 1934). The "Dolchstoßlegende" was not only against Communism and Jews. It was mainly against the young German democracy.
I think that after two World Wars everybody see the results of nationalism. I hope that no one forgets this.
A nationalistic dictationship and mass murders is and was not only possible in Germany or Europe, no it could happen anywhere in the world.
But I'm optimistic that the humanity is intelligent enough to dislike any kind of nationalism.
I want to mention that the first war with France wasn't caused by Germany.
The WW1 was in large parts but not only caused by Germany.
I think that they thought that there isn't any difference between Communism, Liberalism and Democracy.
The "Dolchstoßlegende" was invented by Paul von Hindenburg a general in WW1 and later until his death Reichspräsident (president) of Germany (between 1924 and 1934). The "Dolchstoßlegende" was not only against Communism and Jews. It was mainly against the young German democracy.
I think that after two World Wars everybody see the results of nationalism. I hope that no one forgets this.
A nationalistic dictationship and mass murders is and was not only possible in Germany or Europe, no it could happen anywhere in the world.
But I'm optimistic that the humanity is intelligent enough to dislike any kind of nationalism.
Quote:
ruveyn wrote:
Germany. What a country! It took two wars with France and two world Wars to get them straightened out at last. All is well that ends well. Germany is now a sane and efficient nations -- at long last!
Germany. What a country! It took two wars with France and two world Wars to get them straightened out at last. All is well that ends well. Germany is now a sane and efficient nations -- at long last!
I want to mention that the first war with France wasn't caused by Germany.
The WW1 was in large parts but not only caused by Germany.
I thought it was over an assasination not nessisarily the entire nation of Germany.....as well as a bunch of other political drama and secret treaties and deals the politicians of various countries had in secret with each other. I guess I don't see how it was more Germany than the other nations involved.
Over an assassination, but not because of it. Everyone was looking for a fight. The French wanted Alsace-Lorraine, the Austro-Hungarians and Germans wanted to take down Russia before it could industrialise, the Russians wanted the Straits, the Ottomans wanted true independance, the Balkan countries wanted to continue where they had stopped in 1913, the British didn't care what happened too much so long as there wasn't a single hegemonic power on the continent (yet didn't say they would defend Belgian indepedance until it was too late).
Everyone thought it would be quick. Even though the results proved them wrong, they had good reasons to think that way: the most recent wars between European powers had been won by Prussia within weeks (or by Russia still very quickly, if you count the war of 1877), two wars had been waged in the Balkans, all decisive within weeks, just as was the Italo-Turkish war, militarily at least (there were rebels to suppress in Lybia). Indeed, if the French hadn't stopped the Germans on the Marne, the Great War would not have gone far into 1915. We see a parallel between the absurd bloodshed of the First World War and the American Civil War today, but it is quite artificial. Only after the decision was not reached early on did the war become mutual slaughter -- just like the Second World War started to be a deathtrap in 1941, after the first failed Biltzkrieg offensive, where before victory or defeat was moral rather than physical.
Actually, I'm not not one to give Britain an easy pass on this one.
Germany was already outpacing Britain in industrialization, while their citizens were enjoying a more comfortable, extended lifestyle. There was British envy clearly directed at the Germans on this point. With that came growth in hostile British nationalism.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
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13 Jun 2012, 4:11 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
enrico_dandolo wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aelfwine wrote:
I think that for most Nazis (like the artist which drew this ugly cartoon) Communism, Liberalism and Democracy are all parts of a jewis conspiracy.
I think that they thought that there isn't any difference between Communism, Liberalism and Democracy.
The "Dolchstoßlegende" was invented by Paul von Hindenburg a general in WW1 and later until his death Reichspräsident (president) of Germany (between 1924 and 1934). The "Dolchstoßlegende" was not only against Communism and Jews. It was mainly against the young German democracy.
I think that after two World Wars everybody see the results of nationalism. I hope that no one forgets this.
A nationalistic dictationship and mass murders is and was not only possible in Germany or Europe, no it could happen anywhere in the world.
But I'm optimistic that the humanity is intelligent enough to dislike any kind of nationalism.
I want to mention that the first war with France wasn't caused by Germany.
The WW1 was in large parts but not only caused by Germany.
I think that they thought that there isn't any difference between Communism, Liberalism and Democracy.
The "Dolchstoßlegende" was invented by Paul von Hindenburg a general in WW1 and later until his death Reichspräsident (president) of Germany (between 1924 and 1934). The "Dolchstoßlegende" was not only against Communism and Jews. It was mainly against the young German democracy.
I think that after two World Wars everybody see the results of nationalism. I hope that no one forgets this.
A nationalistic dictationship and mass murders is and was not only possible in Germany or Europe, no it could happen anywhere in the world.
But I'm optimistic that the humanity is intelligent enough to dislike any kind of nationalism.
Quote:
ruveyn wrote:
Germany. What a country! It took two wars with France and two world Wars to get them straightened out at last. All is well that ends well. Germany is now a sane and efficient nations -- at long last!
Germany. What a country! It took two wars with France and two world Wars to get them straightened out at last. All is well that ends well. Germany is now a sane and efficient nations -- at long last!
I want to mention that the first war with France wasn't caused by Germany.
The WW1 was in large parts but not only caused by Germany.
I thought it was over an assasination not nessisarily the entire nation of Germany.....as well as a bunch of other political drama and secret treaties and deals the politicians of various countries had in secret with each other. I guess I don't see how it was more Germany than the other nations involved.
Over an assassination, but not because of it. Everyone was looking for a fight. The French wanted Alsace-Lorraine, the Austro-Hungarians and Germans wanted to take down Russia before it could industrialise, the Russians wanted the Straits, the Ottomans wanted true independance, the Balkan countries wanted to continue where they had stopped in 1913, the British didn't care what happened too much so long as there wasn't a single hegemonic power on the continent (yet didn't say they would defend Belgian indepedance until it was too late).
Everyone thought it would be quick. Even though the results proved them wrong, they had good reasons to think that way: the most recent wars between European powers had been won by Prussia within weeks (or by Russia still very quickly, if you count the war of 1877), two wars had been waged in the Balkans, all decisive within weeks, just as was the Italo-Turkish war, militarily at least (there were rebels to suppress in Lybia). Indeed, if the French hadn't stopped the Germans on the Marne, the Great War would not have gone far into 1915. We see a parallel between the absurd bloodshed of the First World War and the American Civil War today, but it is quite artificial. Only after the decision was not reached early on did the war become mutual slaughter -- just like the Second World War started to be a deathtrap in 1941, after the first failed Biltzkrieg offensive, where before victory or defeat was moral rather than physical.
Actually, I'm not not one to give Britain an easy pass on this one.
Germany was already outpacing Britain in industrialization, while their citizens were enjoying a more comfortable, extended lifestyle. There was British envy clearly directed at the Germans on this point. With that came growth in hostile British nationalism.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
I couldn't agree more Kriachguaer
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13 Jun 2012, 8:03 pm
enrico_dandolo wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Aelfwine wrote:
I think that for most Nazis (like the artist which drew this ugly cartoon) Communism, Liberalism and Democracy are all parts of a jewis conspiracy.
I think that they thought that there isn't any difference between Communism, Liberalism and Democracy.
The "Dolchstoßlegende" was invented by Paul von Hindenburg a general in WW1 and later until his death Reichspräsident (president) of Germany (between 1924 and 1934). The "Dolchstoßlegende" was not only against Communism and Jews. It was mainly against the young German democracy.
I think that after two World Wars everybody see the results of nationalism. I hope that no one forgets this.
A nationalistic dictationship and mass murders is and was not only possible in Germany or Europe, no it could happen anywhere in the world.
But I'm optimistic that the humanity is intelligent enough to dislike any kind of nationalism.
I want to mention that the first war with France wasn't caused by Germany.
The WW1 was in large parts but not only caused by Germany.
I think that they thought that there isn't any difference between Communism, Liberalism and Democracy.
The "Dolchstoßlegende" was invented by Paul von Hindenburg a general in WW1 and later until his death Reichspräsident (president) of Germany (between 1924 and 1934). The "Dolchstoßlegende" was not only against Communism and Jews. It was mainly against the young German democracy.
I think that after two World Wars everybody see the results of nationalism. I hope that no one forgets this.
A nationalistic dictationship and mass murders is and was not only possible in Germany or Europe, no it could happen anywhere in the world.
But I'm optimistic that the humanity is intelligent enough to dislike any kind of nationalism.
Quote:
ruveyn wrote:
Germany. What a country! It took two wars with France and two world Wars to get them straightened out at last. All is well that ends well. Germany is now a sane and efficient nations -- at long last!
Germany. What a country! It took two wars with France and two world Wars to get them straightened out at last. All is well that ends well. Germany is now a sane and efficient nations -- at long last!
I want to mention that the first war with France wasn't caused by Germany.
The WW1 was in large parts but not only caused by Germany.
I thought it was over an assasination not nessisarily the entire nation of Germany.....as well as a bunch of other political drama and secret treaties and deals the politicians of various countries had in secret with each other. I guess I don't see how it was more Germany than the other nations involved.
Over an assassination, but not because of it. Everyone was looking for a fight. The French wanted Alsace-Lorraine, the Austro-Hungarians and Germans wanted to take down Russia before it could industrialise, the Russians wanted the Straits, the Ottomans wanted true independance, the Balkan countries wanted to continue where they had stopped in 1913, the British didn't care what happened too much so long as there wasn't a single hegemonic power on the continent (yet didn't say they would defend Belgian indepedance until it was too late).
Everyone thought it would be quick. Even though the results proved them wrong, they had good reasons to think that way: the most recent wars between European powers had been won by Prussia within weeks (or by Russia still very quickly, if you count the war of 1877), two wars had been waged in the Balkans, all decisive within weeks, just as was the Italo-Turkish war, militarily at least (there were rebels to suppress in Lybia). Indeed, if the French hadn't stopped the Germans on the Marne, the Great War would not have gone far into 1915. We see a parallel between the absurd bloodshed of the First World War and the American Civil War today, but it is quite artificial. Only after the decision was not reached early on did the war become mutual slaughter -- just like the Second World War started to be a deathtrap in 1941, after the first failed Biltzkrieg offensive, where before victory or defeat was moral rather than physical.
There is one important point that's been missed. The assasination was the spark. Another major contributing factor was the advent of a single type of ship: the dreadnought. HMS Dreadnought was the first modern, all-big gun turbine driven battleship and it sparked a naval arms race only paralleled by the race between the US and the USSR. Germany had the second biggest navy in the world and that made the British, a sea faring nation very antsy. The two great fleets met at Jutland in 1916 - the biggest battleship battle in history. Imagine some 37 British capital ships going up against 21 German ones. The battle lasted two days with the Germans achieving a tactical victory in sinking more ships but the British winning strategically by keeping the German Navy hemmed in a blockade. I recommend Robert K. Massie's book "Dreadnought" which goes into detail the naval arms race and it's effects from both British and German documentation. Point being: a single new weapon can always spark a new arms race, potentially a war.
Longshanks
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13 Jun 2012, 10:16 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Actually, I'm not not one to give Britain an easy pass on this one.
Germany was already outpacing Britain in industrialization, while their citizens were enjoying a more comfortable, extended lifestyle. There was British envy clearly directed at the Germans on this point. With that came growth in hostile British nationalism.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Germany was already outpacing Britain in industrialization, while their citizens were enjoying a more comfortable, extended lifestyle. There was British envy clearly directed at the Germans on this point. With that came growth in hostile British nationalism.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
I don't disagree, but there was no direct antagonism between Germany and Britain, like there was between Austria-Hungary and Russia (and thus, indirectly, between Germany and Russia) or between France and Germany. Weltpolitik was more a desire than anything truly dangerous to the British Empire itself, and the war showed how little could the High Seas Fleet challenge British thalassocracy. The Germans were the most powerful in Europe at the time, but a few years later, it could have been a revitalised France or a freshly industriliased Russia.
14 Jun 2012, 3:21 am
Quote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Actually, I'm not not one to give Britain an easy pass on this one.
Germany was already outpacing Britain in industrialization, while their citizens were enjoying a more comfortable, extended lifestyle. There was British envy clearly directed at the Germans on this point. With that came growth in hostile British nationalism.
Actually, I'm not not one to give Britain an easy pass on this one.
Germany was already outpacing Britain in industrialization, while their citizens were enjoying a more comfortable, extended lifestyle. There was British envy clearly directed at the Germans on this point. With that came growth in hostile British nationalism.
Yes and Germany was envious of the British and French colonies. Germany conquered only some few remaining colonies. They brought only expenses and no revenue (I read a book about the german colonies). I think the german colonies were only a waste of money.
Also the relations between France and Britain were not perfect. Around the year 1900 was an incident in the Sudan.
Quote:
Longshanks wrote:
There is one important point that's been missed. The assasination was the spark. Another major contributing factor was the advent of a single type of ship: the dreadnought. HMS Dreadnought was the first modern, all-big gun turbine driven battleship and it sparked a naval arms race only paralleled by the race between the US and the USSR. Germany had the second biggest navy in the world and that made the British, a sea faring nation very antsy. The two great fleets met at Jutland in 1916 - the biggest battleship battle in history. Imagine some 37 British capital ships going up against 21 German ones. The battle lasted two days with the Germans achieving a tactical victory in sinking more ships but the British winning strategically by keeping the German Navy hemmed in a blockade. I recommend Robert K. Massie's book "Dreadnought" which goes into detail the naval arms race and it's effects from both British and German documentation. Point being: a single new weapon can always spark a new arms race, potentially a war.
There is one important point that's been missed. The assasination was the spark. Another major contributing factor was the advent of a single type of ship: the dreadnought. HMS Dreadnought was the first modern, all-big gun turbine driven battleship and it sparked a naval arms race only paralleled by the race between the US and the USSR. Germany had the second biggest navy in the world and that made the British, a sea faring nation very antsy. The two great fleets met at Jutland in 1916 - the biggest battleship battle in history. Imagine some 37 British capital ships going up against 21 German ones. The battle lasted two days with the Germans achieving a tactical victory in sinking more ships but the British winning strategically by keeping the German Navy hemmed in a blockade. I recommend Robert K. Massie's book "Dreadnought" which goes into detail the naval arms race and it's effects from both British and German documentation. Point being: a single new weapon can always spark a new arms race, potentially a war.
I think it would be more intelligent if Germany had spent the money for the fleet on new weapons and better equipment for their soldiers.
And here are two other strange wars:
The Anglo-Zanzibar War. This war was 38 minutes long. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zanzibar_War
And there was around 1847 a 27 days long civil war in Switzerland with only 90 deads. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderbund_War
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