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Creep Shaming?

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mds_02
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30 Jan 2013, 5:29 pm

thomas81 wrote:
to be fair, men have almost no social ill-repute as a result of their sexual promiscuity.

If anything, its a badge of honour to all but the most conservative religious circles.


Not among other men, that's definitely true. But it's been my experience that women will look down on promiscuous men just as men look down on promiscuous women. The part where it's uneven is that promiscuous women have not only the opposite sex, but their own as well, looking down on them for it.



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30 Jan 2013, 6:36 pm

Quote:
But it's been my experience that women will look down on promiscuous men


I think this is mainly due to the increased risk of STDS. And baby-mommas.
Also, a guy who sleeps around is perceived to be interested SOLELY in sex, and not in a relationship. Most women would prefer a relationship.



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30 Jan 2013, 8:21 pm

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30 Jan 2013, 11:57 pm

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ripped
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31 Jan 2013, 1:03 am

Tequila wrote:
If women can call men 'creeps', why can't men call women 'sluts'?

Because getting a quality lay is like winning the lottery in my town. Not that I look anymore.
Shaming women for fulfilling their erotic fantasies is just one step less ret*d than cutting off one's own prick.



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31 Jan 2013, 1:32 am

ripped wrote:
Because getting a quality lay is like winning the lottery in my town.
Shaming women for fulfilling their erotic fantasies is just one step less ret*d than cutting off one's own prick.


Don't make me share one of my funny videos with you, ripped. It gave me a great chuckle.

thomas81 wrote:
to be fair, men have almost no social ill-repute as a result of their sexual promiscuity.


I don't know about that - a lot of men would perhaps be considered to have no standards if he was very promiscuous. i.e. He's disgusting, he sleeps with anything. In extreme cases, revulsion sets in.

thomas81 wrote:
By right wing standards, some may consider this as crossing 'women's boundaries'.


By my "right wing standards", I consider it a vile attack on a woman for using the toilet (and I said that deliberately). Now, have you any questions about that?

I really think you should get out a bit more.



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31 Jan 2013, 1:35 am

hyperlexian wrote:
why would it be a smear if it is used correctly? if a person is behaving creepily, then the label is correctly applied. the problem is that we don't know if it is used rightfully in any case, as we can't see the situation from the eyes of the person applying the label.

i've had it applied to me as a woman, so it isn't a purely gendered term. i accept that some of my behaviours can be seen as creepy - i take that risk as a human being in a social world that i don't fully understand. but i respect the right of other people to protect themselves by applying that label to me as they see fit. their protection trumps my butthurt.


I think most of the time, it's just a malicious thing to say about someone. I think 90% of the time, they know good and well the so called creep poses no threat to anyone.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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31 Jan 2013, 1:42 am

Noodlebug wrote:
This is a term I see a lot in the social justice community. The term basically means the shaming of men who are perceived as crossing women's boundries. If creep shaming was limited only to men who rape and invade women's spaces, I wouldn't have a problem. However, I often see the term used by women who are offended by a man simply looking at her or striking up a casual conversation in an elevator. Heck, I've even been called creepy just for being one of the quiet kids at my old high school.

So is this a term that is problematic, or is it a non issue?

I think one gets called creepy just for being weird looking without ever saying anything to anyone. Creep seems to be what people obsess on these days and they can't wait for the opportunity to utter that word. They will apply it to nearly anything that's a little off or different. I admit sometimes, things can a bit creepy. Please, show some discrimination. Ask yourself if it really is as creepy as ya think?



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31 Jan 2013, 1:43 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Please, show some discrimination. Ask yourself if it really is as creepy as ya think?


Or whether it's simply you that finds a person unattractive?

Some men definitely do earn the label, but if the person finds them attractive, well...



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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31 Jan 2013, 1:50 am

Tequila wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Please, show some discrimination. Ask yourself if it really is as creepy as ya think?


Or whether it's simply you that finds a person unattractive?

Some men definitely do earn the label, but if the person finds them attractive, well...

If they are attractive people are willing to excuse their creepiness? Or, are the attractive incapable of being creepy in the first place? Creepy is reserved for ugliness alone...



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31 Jan 2013, 1:52 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
If they are attractive people are willing to excuse their creepiness?


This.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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31 Jan 2013, 2:35 am

People should say, "I don't find he (or her) attractive and I am not interested." instead of talking about creepiness and only say it if the person acts interested in them. No one should get called creep for looking ugly or weird and being totally quiet and uninterested. Calling someone creepy gets them attention, so it's motivation for them to do it. There are times when people deserve it. It gets overused and becomes a cliche to the ears. It will be like the boy who cried wolf one day and no one will be able to figure out who the real creeps are.



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31 Jan 2013, 5:37 am

CaptainTrips222 wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
why would it be a smear if it is used correctly? if a person is behaving creepily, then the label is correctly applied. the problem is that we don't know if it is used rightfully in any case, as we can't see the situation from the eyes of the person applying the label.

i've had it applied to me as a woman, so it isn't a purely gendered term. i accept that some of my behaviours can be seen as creepy - i take that risk as a human being in a social world that i don't fully understand. but i respect the right of other people to protect themselves by applying that label to me as they see fit. their protection trumps my butthurt.


I think most of the time, it's just a malicious thing to say about someone. I think 90% of the time, they know good and well the so called creep poses no threat to anyone.

maybe. i don't really know either way. do you think it is also the case that people are using the word "slut" maliciously 90% of the time?


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31 Jan 2013, 8:44 am

There's the term "b*tch" which is used all the time when referring to a female-creep. But it's also used occasionally to insult a guy in a different context. In a way it's kind of a bigger insult to call a guy a b*tch even though it doesn't mean he's a creep necessarily like when a women is called one.



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31 Jan 2013, 9:55 am

Calling someone a creep is essentially a way of saying a person's behavior is scaring you or is threatening in some way, not "I'm going to punch you" but "I'm violating your space" and it isn't up to you to decide what scares/threatens other people. It's like guys are saying "Women just say this because..." but I'd rather trust women when they give their reasons for why THEY have said someone is a creep. You can say it's not fair, because of intent being misunderstood, but no one is obligated to investigate your intent when they feel threatened by you.

Maybe it's illogical for a person to feel threatened by you, but it's pretty illogical to say "No, I'm not making you feel afraid, because I don't mean to make you feel afraid". You may not know you're being scary or threatening, but if someone calls you a creep, it means "I feel uncomfortable/you need to stop/get away from me" And it's a safer way of saying it for a lot of women, especially since they already feel threatened. If shame is what it takes to get someone to leave me alone, so be it.

Obviously there are examples of women saying it just to make a guy feel bad, but it's a safety word for me and it alerts everyone around me that someone is making me feel afraid, it increases my safety because people recognize it as a word that indicates I want someone to stop doing something that makes me feel afraid. If I say "Stop touching me" that can work, but if I say "Stop saying vaguely threatening, sexist things to me, I feel unsafe around you." that tells SOME people around me that I feel threatened, and it tells others that I'm a man-hating feminist, that's just how most of Texas is. So unless someone is directly grabbing me or whatever, creep is a perfectly good word.

And "creep shaming" indicates to me that both men and women recognize that the word creep indicates something bad, that's why it works as a safety word. People are more inclined to intervene.

But then, I don't have any obligation to justify feeling threatened, and trying to evade the situation that is making me feel unsafe, and outside of a court room, neither does any other person. My personal safety comes before the pride/ego/feelings of anyone I feel threatened by, that's how it works.


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31 Jan 2013, 10:24 am

meems wrote:
Calling someone a creep is essentially a way of saying a person's behavior is scaring you or is threatening in some way, not "I'm going to punch you" but "I'm violating your space" and it isn't up to you to decide what scares/threatens other people. It's like guys are saying "Women just say this because..." but I'd rather trust women when they give their reasons for why THEY have said someone is a creep. You can say it's not fair, because of intent being misunderstood, but no one is obligated to investigate your intent when they feel threatened by you.

Maybe it's illogical for a person to feel threatened by you, but it's pretty illogical to say "No, I'm not making you feel afraid, because I don't mean to make you feel afraid". You may not know you're being scary or threatening, but if someone calls you a creep, it means "I feel uncomfortable/you need to stop/get away from me" And it's a safer way of saying it for a lot of women, especially since they already feel threatened. If shame is what it takes to get someone to leave me alone, so be it.

Obviously there are examples of women saying it just to make a guy feel bad, but it's a safety word for me and it alerts everyone around me that someone is making me feel afraid, it increases my safety because people recognize it as a word that indicates I want someone to stop doing something that makes me feel afraid. If I say "Stop touching me" that can work, but if I say "Stop saying vaguely threatening, sexist things to me, I feel unsafe around you." that tells SOME people around me that I feel threatened, and it tells others that I'm a man-hating feminist, that's just how most of Texas is. So unless someone is directly grabbing me or whatever, creep is a perfectly good word.

And "creep shaming" indicates to me that both men and women recognize that the word creep indicates something bad, that's why it works as a safety word. People are more inclined to intervene.

But then, I don't have any obligation to justify feeling threatened, and trying to evade the situation that is making me feel unsafe, and outside of a court room, neither does any other person. My personal safety comes before the pride/ego/feelings of anyone I feel threatened by, that's how it works.


That makes sense. I agree with that. I'm not as concerned with calling someone a creep who doesn't know as I am with taking someone to court who meant no harm.

That's when it strikes me as unfair. If someone unwittingly does something that another person finds offensive and that person takes it it to court immediately without using his/her words first it bothers me more because it can ruin an innocent person's life. By innocent I don't mean the person didn't do any harm I mean the person had no intention of doing harm. If you call a person a creep it protects your own interests without the chance of getting some socially awkward but otherwise well-meaning person labelled a sex offender.


I would rather call someone a creep than take that person to court initially. I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt at first. I wouldn't take legal action until after the person persists in spite of my words.