Is organised religion a general enemy of humanity?

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I hath voted yes.

I'm well, actualy. But I've been in hell before. But it's not just me. Hundreds of millions who suffer horrors every day. There's thousands of different illnesses, millions going through hunger, people with broken hearts and people with hearts to be broken when the time comes, not just by romantic love but also by death of parents and death of children and death of siblings. Death itself is uncertain and affects us all. We're all going through death. And even when normal happiness arise it's a form of tension. Oh there's also old age for those who survive. Last but not the least there's all the horror of war.

If there is a god who is all knowing and all powerful and created all this he is indeed the supreme fascist, the most despicable horrible abject excuse for a being.

Yeah, imagine believing there really is a hell out there and that you're aware a lot of the people you've grown to care for are heading that path. I was that guy once.

The sad thing is that it isn't the religious leaders that are the main reason for this kind of thinking. The followers themselves allow for this to happen.

Except if you take into account that it might be that there's some cosmic entity or force or whatever that's beyond the time and space of this visible universe and that randomly brings forth infinite universes via singularities. It's infinitely likely that at least one of them is bound to end up being a universe with the mathematical constants and quantities required to allow for life eventually on a planet just like Earth. This universe we're in is one such universe.



I don't believe that's what the Qur'an actually states.

i. love. this. post.

YOU just proved my point. the quran does state all that, go look it up. the fact that you are denying it only proves the Quran is a miracle. I LOVE THIS POST!! !! !

Thank you for indirectly confirming the miraculous predictions of the Quran regarding science. if only you knew the numerous scientific miracles in the quran then would you open your eyes. btw the quran mentions there are other worlds beyond our own. no bedouin, especially an illiterate one, could have ever predicted this 1400 years ago. the quran says every living thing came from water. the quran talks about the frontal lobe being used for action and planning. these have been recently proven, yet a book 1400 years ago by an illiterate beduin predicted all this???? proves how much of a miracle the quran really is

i should really thank you for confirming that the quran is a miracle. if you don't believe, then ask science:

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html

Last edited by salad on 04 Feb 2013, 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Suppose the cosmos in some form or another has always existed and the so-called Big Bang was just an intermediate stage.

Then one would not need a creator god at all.

If we cannot accept that something can come from nothing, and something must come from something, then there must have always been something.

ruveyn

lol, don't go hysterical on me now just because you can't really demonstrate the claims that you assert.

The funny thing is I've actually read the whole of the Qur'an in English and have read few several verses of it in the original classical Arabic. And I'm willing to bet that you haven't.

EDIT: This post is in response to salad.

Mohammed cribbed the whole thing from the Jews of Arabia. He suffered from Chose People envy.

ruveyn

i am hysterical, because you've been proven wrong and you're suffering from a severe case of denial. here:

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html

dont argue now that the evidence is here.

there. were. no. jews. in. makkah

even the verses revealed in Makkah were crammed with scientific miracles. second he couldn't read so how could he have copied their books?? .

third they were jealous of him. please, go read a book. who tried to kill who? does that answer your question on who was jealous of who??

btw chosen people?? they were the chosen people, but they disobeyed their messengers and in the end even killed them. that's why God replaced them.

Last edited by salad on 04 Feb 2013, 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah, as if I have all the time in the world to go through every single one of those wild claims.

The thing is I've actually researched those claims from a long time ago. You're not the first Muslim I debate with, you know.

Those listed claims in that link all amount to twisting the original intended meaning of each concerned verse to try to make it sound like it was predicting something outstandingly scientific that only modern people could have been aware of. The Qur'an nowhere mentions the Big Bang, and claims such as man being made of water are not really as remarkable as they seem given that the ancients could've easily come up with such statements without the need for a god to tell them.

Besides, we're not just made of water. And we are much much more than that.

the ancient scientists. Muhammad PBUH was an illiterate beduin, uneducated, and all of a sudden sprouted out scientific miracles randomly?? and the Quran mentions the big bang surah Anbiya Ayah 30-31. the quran isn't a science book meant to explain in details these phenomena, it's a book meant to guide us. nonetheless it still discusses scientific miracles regardless.

and God said we're made from clay and water and other substances.

also, in surah 19 God talks about how the frontal lobe is used for planning, which is true. how did he know?? remember, an uneducated illiterate beduin. not a scientist. not a thinker. what are the odds??

You have imposed fantastical interpretations of the Q'ran which the people of Mohammed's time never even thought of. You are doing something like proving Nostradamus predicted just about everything, because he is reinterpret after the fact again and again.

In Mohammeds time no one even knew stuff was made of atoms. Hell, these dudes believe in Rocs (giant birds) and flying carpets. The early Muslims even believe Mohammed had a flying horse. Horses cannot fly. It is aerodynamically impossible.

In Mohammed's day almost everyone outside of Alexandria was scientifically ignorant.

ruveyn

You're calling them scientific miracles, but they're not. Besides, the ancient Greeks came up with much more impressive points and calculations that only in this day and age we've been able to confirm. For example, Eratosthenes ended up being quite close in his estimation of the Earth's circumference.

Definitely more impressive than saying that man is made up of water and you don't need ancient scientists to come up with such a claim. I could easily imagine laymen and shepherds making that claim out of ignorance rather than advanced scientific knowledge.



I checked. Not even close.

In fact, verse 30 is almost copy of one of the verses in Genesis.

Oh, and the pseudo-science in those verses.



Yeah, such that the sky is a protected ceiling. Interesting how you didn't mention verse 32 right after those verses you listed.



Yeah, from clay and water and other stuff. How scientific.



We'll discuss the odds as soon as you tell me which verse.

My favorite thing about religion is that adults tell you that the deity is all the knowldge their kids will ever need.

I don't see why it is awful. It is no different than recognizing that our parents have given us our genes and our upbringing. In much the same way God has supplied us with the metaphysical preconditions for existence. The afterlife means that our actions have eternal significance. If someone like Jack the Ripper evades capture, he will still be punished. No deed will go unrewarded or unpunished.

What else can atheists say about humanity, except that we came from inanimate forces and each day brings us one step closer to annihilation? That is an exceptionally bleak view of humanity compared to anything religion has to say.

A benefit of religion is that it prescribes moral norms to maintain a social order. People who follow the moral precepts of a religion can generally trust one another and cooperate to achieve goals. If everyone makes up their own values, the result is moral anarchy and it is harder for people to trust each other. That type of society breeds cynics and liars, and it leads to social alienation.

In answer to the poll - no, organized religion is not the enemy of humanity. It shows that humanity is not just another species of animal.

Last edited by Telekon on 05 Feb 2013, 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.