Is there anything to "Men's Rights" groups?

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ArrantPariah
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22 Feb 2013, 2:42 pm

mercifullyfree wrote:

You should probably research your topic better.

Well, if I already know everything there is to know about a topic, then there isn't much point in starting a discussion on it, is there?

mercifullyfree wrote:

If you're getting all your info about feminism and women from MRA sites, you're not going to get an accurate range of information.

My impressions came largely from Feminists on this forum, and elsewhere. I don't spend a lot of time reading MRA materials. I didn't know what MRA stood for until recently. Hence, why I started the discussion.

MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 2:49 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

mercifullyfree wrote:

You should probably research your topic better.

Well, if I already know everything there is to know about a topic, then there isn't much point in starting a discussion on it, is there?

mercifullyfree wrote:

If you're getting all your info about feminism and women from MRA sites, you're not going to get an accurate range of information.

I didn't know about MRA either until LKL mentioned it a couple of times and then I had to go google it to see what it was all about. It was a challenge figuring out via Google what she was referring to.

mercifullyfree
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22 Feb 2013, 3:00 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

Well, if I already know everything there is to know about a topic, then there isn't much point in starting a discussion on it, is there?

My impressions came largely from Feminists on this forum, and elsewhere. I don't spend a lot of time reading MRA materials. I didn't know what MRA stood for until recently. Hence, why I started the discussion.

Right, that's fine, but when you start saying things like "feminists believe... blah blah" it implies you think you know about the subject when you don't. Women on this forum and elsewhere speak for themselves, not for ALL women or feminists. Women and feminists don't operate in a hivemind. We can disagree on some things just like men do.

Case in point. On this thread and others, there are guys expressing sexual frustration and claiming women have it oh so easy. On another thread in the L&D, there are guys claiming they're turned off by women "throwing themselves" at them, being "clingy" and how uncomfortable they are with desperate ugly or overweight women's sexual advances. One could lump these men all together and make the sweeping assertion that "Men are hypocritical and full of crap" or just realize that they are different men with different opinions, wants and experiences. I go with the latter.

ArrantPariah
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22 Feb 2013, 3:43 pm

MCalavera wrote:

XFilesGeek
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22 Feb 2013, 3:45 pm

mercifullyfree wrote:

MCalavera wrote:

Ok, but anecdotal evidence suggests that it's easier for women in general to get laid than it is for men.

I think the trick for anyone to get laid is to lower your standards. Works for men and women. The frustration is caused when what you can get with those lower standards doesn't satisfy. A woman might be able to sex from that desperate looking whatshisface at the bar, but that doesn't mean it'll be sexually fulfilling for her. She might still be left frustrated by the experience and a vibrator may well work better.

Quote:

Plus, why was the part about dating and relationships skipped and all focus was on the sex bit? Isn't that subject also worth debating? Or do we all agree (aside from Schnee) that there should be a subject taught at school to do with dating and relationships?

Dating and relationships are hard for any gender and can be too complicated. I am not opposed to the idea of the stuff being taught in theory, but in practice I would be wary how it's taught and who's teaching it. Would LGBT people be addressed and represented? If so, are evangelicals going throw a fit about it and demand to control the subject? It's just damn complicated and the sex question is a lot more easy to figure out.

Thank you.

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Telekon
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22 Feb 2013, 3:46 pm

mercifullyfree wrote:

Telekon wrote:

What if traditional gender role pressure is biologically ingrained? Think about how people lived not too long ago. Think about how long human beings have been on this planet. It is not something that will go away as soon as people start demanding rights.

Why call women sluts and dykes or call men fags and p*****s if they don't conform to the expected role? Why codify it into any law? What's the point of that? If it's natural for most people to act a certain way, there's plenty of room on the planet for them to go do their traditional arrangement with a guy working and a woman having babies and let those who don't fit into that to do their own thing as well. For a lot of us, the traditional thing doesn't come natural. It's forced or peer pressured. A lot of these guys who claim to be oppressed by feminism just want to turn it around and be doing all the oppressing themselves. F that. For the ones who want to just be free of all the gender crap, that's great and I'd support that!

You have to think about how people lived in the distant past. Effeminacy in males was probably a sign of physical weakness and therefore a maladaptive trait. You don't have to investigate pre-history to see this either. Do you think effeminate men tamed the wild west, or fought medieval battles with swords and clubs? Fag-calling is a subconscious way of culling the herd. Please understand that I'm only answering the "why" question you started out with, not trying to justify nasty name calling.

ArrantPariah
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22 Feb 2013, 4:00 pm

mercifullyfree wrote:

I didn't claim that all women were Feminists. But, having looked up a little bit about your Annie Sprinkle, I wonder if most Feminists would consider her to be a Feminist at all? Does the term "Feminist" really mean anything? If so, then what?

DarthMetaKnight
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22 Feb 2013, 4:07 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

I hope it isn't Henry Makow.

I hope so too.

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MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 4:12 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

Interesting link.

Telekon
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22 Feb 2013, 4:30 pm

MCalavera wrote:

One solution would be for society overall to encourage more volunteers to be sex workers (male and female). I suspect the majority of the various forms of feminism (aside from religion) is a major obstacle in the face of such a solution.

What is this a solution to? It's not like you are going to die if you don't have an orgasm. You don't even need another person for that.

MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 4:33 pm

Telekon wrote:

MCalavera wrote:

What is this a solution to? It's not like you are going to die if you don't have an orgasm. You don't even need another person for that.

Women are also not going to die by not being equally free as men (as some of the feminists would argue).

Telekon
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22 Feb 2013, 4:42 pm

MCalavera wrote:

Telekon wrote:

MCalavera wrote:

What is this a solution to? It's not like you are going to die if you don't have an orgasm. You don't even need another person for that.

Women are also not going to die by not being equally free as men (as some of the feminists would argue).

That may be so but it doesn't answer my question.

MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 4:44 pm

Telekon wrote:

MCalavera wrote:

Telekon wrote:

MCalavera wrote:

What is this a solution to? It's not like you are going to die if you don't have an orgasm. You don't even need another person for that.

Women are also not going to die by not being equally free as men (as some of the feminists would argue).

That may be so but it doesn't answer my question.

Yeah, I forgot to answer that as I was too busy trying to come up with a clever response.

Telekon
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22 Feb 2013, 4:46 pm

Do you really think society should encourage more people to become sex workers so they can give freebies to guys who can't get laid, MCalavera?

hyperlexian
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22 Feb 2013, 4:50 pm

MCalavera wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

MCalavera wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

MCalavera wrote:

I'm proposing that this be addressed, but feminists seem to trivialize this and think it's silly. I think it's serious.

how are you proposing that it should be addressed? and what are your ideas to fix this?

Do you agree it needs to be addressed?

that was not an answer. i asked two questions.

Ok, and I'm asking you a question in response.

What are you fishing for exactly? You don't really care about the details, do you?

if i did not care about the details, i would not ask.

i don't really understand why you seem to care more about your straw feminist's opinions than about actual solutions. so i am opening a dialogue about solutions. again, what would fix the problem, and how do you think feminism should address it?

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MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 4:51 pm

Telekon wrote:

Do you really think society should encourage more people to become sex workers so they can give freebies to guys who can't get laid, MCalavera?

Ask the sex-positive feminists. I think I'm in love with them.

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