Gun control: more divisive than reason

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sliqua-jcooter
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01 Oct 2013, 2:51 pm

WardenWolf wrote:

ProMag: Jam like a Pro!

Yeah - I know.

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sonofghandi
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01 Oct 2013, 2:53 pm

Dox47 wrote:

You can easily see that the homicide rate was plummeting during the "Wild West" era, and didn't uptick again until the advent of Prohibition, and then again at the start of the "war on drugs", and has been in freefall in this era of liberalized concealed carry and record gun sales.

Just an FYI, the relatively recent crime rate plummet has been linked to the legalization of abortion and the reduction of the birth rate.

I am fully in favor of gun ownership, but I do think they need to be regulated to some extent. I am 100% in favor of madatory gun safety training (or proof of prior training) prior to purchasing a firearm. I think it should be worth a minor inconvenience in order to make certain that the person buying the gun isn't just some middle class, middle management suburbia yahoo that has no clue what a safety is.

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simon_says
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01 Oct 2013, 2:54 pm

Not every mass shooter is that capable with firearms handling or magazine changes. Some of them have been tackled during reloading. Many of them are mentally unstable and not exactly at their best. I'd rather have the seconds than not have them.

Jacoby
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01 Oct 2013, 3:12 pm

simon_says wrote:

The ole 'if it saves one person' argument huh?

These mentally deranged gunmen which are statistically irrelevant when it comes to gun violence in this country all seem to be quite capable when it comes to handling guns.

sliqua-jcooter
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01 Oct 2013, 3:14 pm

sonofghandi wrote:

Just an FYI, the relatively recent crime rate plummet has been linked to the legalization of abortion and the reduction of the birth rate.

I'd be interested in reading your source for that.

Quote:

I am fully in favor of gun ownership, but I do think they need to be regulated to some extent.

Very few people would disagree with that statement.

Quote:

I am 100% in favor of madatory gun safety training (or proof of prior training) prior to purchasing a firearm. I think it should be worth a minor inconvenience in order to make certain that the person buying the gun isn't just some middle class, middle management suburbia yahoo that has no clue what a safety is.

If the government is going to mandate that, they need to make sure that it's not an undue burden on lower-class citizens. What I absolutely don't want to see is the situation that was DC after the Heller decision, where purchasing a handgun was legal, but you had to pay ~$300 on top of the cost of the gun just to jump through the hoops.

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simon_says
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01 Oct 2013, 3:21 pm

Jacoby wrote:

simon_says wrote:

Guns have no relevance to my life so there is no incovenience for me not to have a magazine restriction to possibly increase my safety. Ditto for aircraft safety regulations. Though I'll likely never be in a place crash. I just don't care if it inconveniences the airlines.

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01 Oct 2013, 3:29 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

Your answer was anything but clear - which is why I gave you an answer for the specific question you asked, as well as the question that was actually the target of this discussion. I'm not going to play your games.

This is BS, the one playing games is you. I asked you a question referring to a statement you made about "3 round mags" and instead of answering it gave me some pedantic reply about how those probably don't exist. The only way your vague premise works is if we ignore the entire history of firearms and the effect repeating weapons have had on the battlefield.

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

You want proof that the difference between emptying one large magazine and several small magazines is negligible - I'll give you that.

These images prove "what" exactly? That you bought something? You haven't given me a straight answer at all. I conclude you are simply unwilling to because you know the answer is damning to your argument. Have fun with your toys. For the record I'm not against firearms in principle I just think these arguments being put forward by gun advocates are getting really, really absurd. You're literally arguing against simple arithmetic. How far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go?

redriverronin wrote:

You cant expect people like him to try to understand reality look at the people he quotes sun tsu and Niccolo Machiavelli they advocate using lies and deceit to get what they want. He has an agenda and he will use whatever underhanded and amoral methods to achieve them whether the end result hurts people or not is irrelevant only his goal matters.

you're a special case my friend

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sonofghandi
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01 Oct 2013, 3:35 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

Just an FYI, the relatively recent crime rate plummet has been linked to the legalization of abortion and the reduction of the birth rate.

I'd be interested in reading your source for that.

Just Google "Donohue and Levitt study" and you will get more than enough info, both for and against the claim.

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

Quote:

I am fully in favor of gun ownership, but I do think they need to be regulated to some extent.

Very few people would disagree with that statement.

I agree, but the loudest of the pro-gun groups are against all forms of gun regulation.

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

Quote:

I agree with this statement also. I think the NRA should be heavily involved in setting up a program like this. If they would be willing to put some time and money into it instead of just trying to prevent/repeal.

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sliqua-jcooter
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01 Oct 2013, 3:42 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Actually - you asked me to prove it, and I agreed to do so. I don't currently have the necessary equipment to prove my statement - so you'll have your proof when I am able to produce it.

Quote:

You're literally arguing against simple arithmetic. How far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go?

No one here is arguing that 3 is less than 30 - what I'm arguing is that 10 * 3 = 30. You do nothing by forcing people to buy multiple smaller mags vs one larger mag. You're the one being deliberately obtuse.

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01 Oct 2013, 3:46 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

Actually - you asked me to prove it, and I agreed to do so. I don't currently have the necessary equipment to prove my statement - so you'll have your proof when I am able to produce it.

Please don't, I don't want you to go on a killing spree, man!

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

So being forced to reload 10 times will make zero difference at all in comparison with 30 bullets fired from a single mag continuously. This is what you're saying. Correct?

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01 Oct 2013, 3:50 pm

Vigilans wrote:

So being forced to reload 10 times will make zero difference at all in comparison with 30 bullets fired from a single mag continuously. This is what you're saying. Correct?

I believe the term I used was negligible.

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01 Oct 2013, 3:53 pm

RushKing wrote:

Question for people for gun control:
Why do you believe gun free zones are safe? It only takes one bad person to spoil the broth. So what does gun control accomplish? The bad guys will always find a way to sneak them.

It doesn't sound safe to me, I just want a sensible system of regulation, licensing and insurance. I myself intend to be a firearm owner in the next few years.. Not a hater on guns

RushKing wrote:

If a bad guy walks into a crowded dark room and fires it up a lot of people will die weather or not they have guns obviously. So why is this topic blown out of proportion?

People spend a lot more money on firearms, ammunition and related accessories when they fear they're about to lose the right to collect them. Its economic manipulation at its core in my opinion. The idea that there will be extreme limits on gun rights in the near future is very profitable to manufacturers

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01 Oct 2013, 4:34 pm

Vigilans wrote:

So Obama, Feinstein, Bloomberg, etc are just in it to sell more guns?

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sliqua-jcooter
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01 Oct 2013, 4:36 pm

Well, no. Of course not. But you can't deny it's been a good couple of years for gun manufacturers.

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Dox47
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01 Oct 2013, 4:37 pm

sonofghandi wrote:

Just an FYI, the relatively recent crime rate plummet has been linked to the legalization of abortion and the reduction of the birth rate.

I wasn't arguing that guns caused the decline in violent crime, I was arguing that external forces typically have been the chief driver of the murder rate. I was also pointing out that the historic drop in crime has coincided with the liberalization of carry laws nationwide and all time record gun sales, which takes a lot of the air out of the "more guns = more crime" school of argumentation.

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01 Oct 2013, 4:38 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

So Obama, Feinstein, Bloomberg, etc are just in it to sell more guns?

No, I think manufacturers benefit greatly from an atmosphere of desirable product uncertainty and spread a lot of lies and misinformation through third parties regarding the intentions of both gun control and anti-gun control advocates to maintain this profitable atmosphere

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