The US Government Shut-Down - Whom to Blame

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eric76
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02 Oct 2013, 5:41 pm

Clucky wrote:

Republicans continue to brazenly employ duplicitous tactics

The Republicans certainly do employ such tactics, but it appears to me that the Democrats use them far more than the Republicans.

auntblabby
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02 Oct 2013, 5:43 pm

each side expects the other to fall upon their swords.

Clucky
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02 Oct 2013, 5:45 pm

eric76 wrote:

Clucky wrote:

Republicans continue to brazenly employ duplicitous tactics

The Republicans certainly do employ such tactics, but it appears to me that the Democrats use them far more than the Republicans.

Bullcrap. Neither party are great, but the Republicans are demonstrably worse.
This latest debacle is an indictment of their party.
They have no regard for the American people, and will even resort to decimating the economy in an attempt to bribe Obama into comprising on ObamaCare.
Shameless. And they knew this would probably be the outcome.

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auntblabby
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02 Oct 2013, 5:56 pm

I vainly wish the TP would come to its senses and do what is good for all of America instead of just their own privileged selves. until they do such, I will continue to blame them until the cows come home. they are not making good karma for themselves by hurting millions of people for no good reason. and the people who deny the TP are hurting anybody are even worse than the TP! if the TP are so bound and determined to hurt people, let them hurt themselves FIRST!

eric76
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02 Oct 2013, 6:13 pm

Clucky wrote:

eric76 wrote:

Clucky wrote:

Republicans continue to brazenly employ duplicitous tactics

The Republicans certainly do employ such tactics, but it appears to me that the Democrats use them far more than the Republicans.

It is the fault of both Republicans and Democrats. It is the fault of both Congress and the President.

Trying to blame one and not the other is nothing more than blatant partisanship.

The only reason it matters much is because we have a very stupid and gullible public out there who believes whatever lies their side tells them.

Last edited by eric76 on 02 Oct 2013, 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

eric76
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02 Oct 2013, 6:18 pm

As I understand it, the Republican led House of Representatives HAS passed budget resolutions each year but the Democrat led Senate HAS REFUSED to pass any budget resolutions in spite of their duty to do so.

And you want to put all the blame on the Republicans?

Under 31 USC § 1105 - Budget contents and submission to Congress, the President has a duty to submit a budget for the next fiscal year to Congress. Read it for yourself at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/1105.

When has the last time that President Obama has submitted a budget to Congress on time?

In any event, the last time a budget was passed was in 2009. And it is the Democrat controlled Senate that is failing to do their part.

Last edited by eric76 on 02 Oct 2013, 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

auntblabby
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02 Oct 2013, 6:24 pm

eric76 wrote:

and you expect the democrats to fall en masse upon their swords and pass something containing poison pills?

eric76
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02 Oct 2013, 6:34 pm

auntblabby wrote:

eric76 wrote:

and you expect the democrats to fall en masse upon their swords and pass something containing poison pills?

The President submits the budget. As I understand it, both houses of Congress amend it to get what they are happy with and then it goes to a committee to sort out the differences. After that, they vote again and if it passes, it goes to the President.

Where did these poison pills come from? Did the Democrat President Obama put them in there? Was it the Senate Committe on the Budget with presumably a Democrat majority?

eric76
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02 Oct 2013, 6:36 pm

For your information, here is the Federal Budget Process from http://nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/federal-budget-process/:

Quote:

Step 1: The President submits a budget request to Congress

Step 2: The House and Senate pass budget resolutions

Step 3: House and Senate Appropriations subcommittees “markup” appropriations bills

Step 4: The House and Senate vote on appropriations bills and reconcile differences

Step 5: The President signs each appropriations bill and the budget becomes law

eric76
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02 Oct 2013, 6:39 pm

The Northern Marianas does it better. In 2010, when the legislature failed to pass a balanced budget, they shut down the government.

I got a big kick out of it at the time and wished we could do that.

From http://www.rnzi.com/pages/news.php?op=read&id=56179:

Quote:

The government in the Northern Marianas partially shuts down starting today following the legislature’s failure to pass a balanced budget by the Sept. 30 deadline.

Over 1,400 government employees holding so-called non-essential positions are now temporarily out of jobs until the Legislature passes a budget and the governor signs it into law.

Yesterday, Governor Benigno Fitial signed an executive order declaring a state of emergency..

The governor says his executive order invokes his emergency powers to determine and operate the government’s essential services under the CNMI Constitution, and to declare what those services entail and include.

He revised his list of services and positions considered "essential" and are therefore exempted from the shutdown starting today.

Most directly provide services related to public safety, health, education and welfare.

sonofghandi
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02 Oct 2013, 6:45 pm

eric76 wrote:

For your information, here is the Federal Budget Process from http://nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/federal-budget-process/:

Quote:

It is step 4 where the hang up is. The vote on the appropriations is where both decided not to pass as it was been "reconciled" by the House/Senate committees. Unless something has changed since around noon (last time I ran through the news), Boehner hasn't called for a vote on the Senate's most recent resolution, which he must do before it can be voted on.

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auntblabby
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02 Oct 2013, 6:50 pm

Boehner said "i'm just gonna turn 'em (TP) loose and see what happens." that is in fact the height of irresponsibility, on his part. he is being more of a terrorist enabler and much less of a statesman.

Clucky
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02 Oct 2013, 6:50 pm

eric76 wrote:

Clucky wrote:

eric76 wrote:

Clucky wrote:

Republicans continue to brazenly employ duplicitous tactics

The Republicans certainly do employ such tactics, but it appears to me that the Democrats use them far more than the Republicans.

This is just categorically incorrect and disingenuous. The president has nothing to do with this shutdown.
The republicans tried to extort a comprise from him on ObamaCare and he has no right to.
You can call it partisanship all you like but I have no affiliation to either party, and the facts substantiate my premise.
I don't think either party is great, but there's one who is pitifully incompetent and infused with hate.
The republicans are culpable for this shutdown, there is no other reasonable position but that.

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eric76
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02 Oct 2013, 6:55 pm

sonofghandi wrote:

eric76 wrote:

For your information, here is the Federal Budget Process from http://nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/federal-budget-process/:

Quote:

They are at a bit of an impasse. One side wants changes and the other refuses to even think of changing anything.

In any event, this isn't a budget, it is a continuing resolution to fund the government in the absence of a budget.

Last edited by eric76 on 02 Oct 2013, 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

auntblabby
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02 Oct 2013, 6:57 pm

eric76 wrote:

One side wants changes and the other refuses to even think of changing anything.

that can go either way.

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02 Oct 2013, 7:27 pm

auntblabby wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

So now it's sins of the father? Let me make this short and sweet. After today, you and Bill no longer get to criticize anybody for demonizing, dehumanizing, or any other kind of name-calling, as you've lost that moral high ground. You've called people who merely have a different opinion than you sub-human and/or evil at every opportunity, and have dismissed their opinions as ignorant, malicious, or both. Plenty of people in worse shape than you take the Tea Party position not because they value their own lives over yours, they're denying themselves the same program they are you after all, but because they believe it's the right thing to do. You've successfully lowered yourself to the level of any other hate group member, congratulations.

whatever. you are totally ignoring the TP assault on the working class. your verbiage is totally irrelevant to the demonstrable fact that the TP via its actions in congress is demonstrably denying me affordable health care which is a HUMAN RIGHT that the lions' share of other western nations provide for ALL of their citizens. the debt is just a smoke screen for effed up national priorities, guns over butter. I suggest you avoid my posts.

Dox doesn't care about these 'peripheral' issues. What matters is who unflinchingly supports the rights of paranoid hobbyists and their toys. All other issues are unimportant and unworthy of attention. In fact, you're arrogant just for suggesting such!

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