Everyone Hates Feminists

Post Reply New Topic

What you're missing is that people like me want to buy guns, we'd buy them regardless of the NRA, and the real limiting factor for most of us is money, as shooting is not a cheap hobby. We buy weapons that the Democrats want to ban because we want to own them, or, more cynically, because we know that the prices will go through the roof when demand outstrips supply, not because we're being wound up by the NRA. We oppose gun control because we like guns, and because we can and do read our history, to say nothing of the anti gun people's own web sites, and we know what they intend, again, independent of the NRA. What the NRA is really good at is applying political pressure to politicians and focusing our wrath upon those that offend us, and it is for that purpose that most of us grudgingly support them, in spite of their many flaws as an organization.

Shooting can't be that expensive.

Most of the arguments from pro-gun people are based on fear, not reality (Obama's gonna take yer guns!); and, seriously: the argument that 'I have to be armed because the criminals won't pay attention to gun restrictions' argument is a literal argument for an arms race. That's not fear or hyperbole on my part, it's the false assumption that 'a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun,' the false assumption that you're safer if more people are armed, and the false assumption that one person armed with weapon x is equal to another person armed with weapon x, and that you'll be safer if you have more firepower.

The one frenemy that I mentioned was an extreme case, but that was largely because he posted while drunk; the things that he said were things that are hinted about and talked around in other pro-gun discussions that I've lurked through and joined in on.


Because I care as much about attempted murders as murders, and attempted suicides as suicides. If you try to kill yourself with a gun, you'll probably succeed; if you try to hang yourself, you'll probably succeed but not necessarily; if you try with a knife, you'll probably fail (unless you know a little bit of anatomy, or go for your gut samurai-style, in which case you'll probably die of infection a week or so after your initial attempt). Likewise, if you want to murder your spouse, you're going to have to get closer, get your hands bloodier, experience the act of killing in a much more visceral way, and take longer to kill them - which gives them time to try to escape or fight back. If you go on a killing rampage, you're going to end up killing a lot fewer people if you use a knife than if you use a gun.

Again, I don't think that all guns should be banned, but the idea that guns don't make murder and suicide easier is just stupid on an academic level.


Just the ones that have more killing power than the average person needs to take down the average mountain lion. I will defer to you, as the weapons expert, on what those are.


Are there universal background checks in California? I don't think so. I know that, in my county alone, there are quite a few people who had registered firearms, who became disqualified from owning them because of spousal abuse or other factors, and who didn't subsequently turn in their guns.
http://www.northcoastjournal.com/humbol ... id=2185512
It's pretty hard to prove that something works when it's never actually been tried and enforced.
As for why it wouldn't go further, do you think that the NRA would let it? Maybe if we're envisioning the end of the gun-rights lobby along with the total capitulation of the Republicans, it would go further, but I don't think that either of those things would happen. In addition, there are a lot of Democrats who see guns as useful tools.


Oh, I have goals, and I've stated them several times: universal background checks, limits on firepower, and mandatory waiting periods. You knew this, so why do you accuse me of 'only disliking the NRA'?

As for why I dislike the NRA:
1)they oppose linking the terrorist watch list into the background check system.
2)they oppose even reasonable limits on killing capacity.
3)they supported legislation that gave gun manufacturers total immunity from being sued for their products along the lines of the tabacco companies.
4)they support legislation that prevents the release of gun death statistics to the public
5)They oppose universal background checks.
6)their mailings to their members often imply that 'the gub'mint is cummin fer yer guns!' or 'the gub'mint gonna ban guns made after time x, so buy now!' (yes, I have read these myself).
7)they think that arming teachers will make for safer schools.
they attack any politician who dares to support even reasonable gun legislation.
9)they promote the idea that people need to be armed 'patriots' so that they can 'rise up against the central government' if it becomes too tyrannical. 'The government should fear its citizens, not the other way around,' as if a single guy with an AR-15 (or even a backwoods 'militia' unit) could take on a unit of US Marines.
10)they claim to represent gun owners, but their positions are far more extreme than the vast majority of gun owners in the country.
off the top of my head.

For some more reasons why I dislike them:
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert ... ras-parano
http://www.salon.com/2013/05/07/must_se ... onvention/
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... ds-history
http://www.vpc.org/studies/bloodmoney.pdf
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/dav ... y-not-ban-
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... nt/267244/
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/opi ... rs-647595/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/1 ... 34142.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... story.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/1 ... e-NRA-has#
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/14/the_nra ... n_control/
http://guncontrolnowusa.wordpress.com/2 ... s-america/

Several of my conservative colleagues at work went out and bought a few thousand dollars worth of guns after Obama's first election, and then a few hundred more after the second election, because they were sure that Obama was going to ban them. They don't use these guns for sport or anything else, and they put them on their credit cards.

I'll get to the rest of this after work, but I just couldn't let this one go. Seriously? Do you not know how seriously flawed the watch list is, or do you know but not care so long as it's being used against gun owners?

Seriously? You think it's ok to keep people from being able to fly, but not ok to keep them from being able to buy as many guns as they want?
Or am I misinterpreting you - do you want to do away with the terrorism watch list altogether?

The average murderer doesn't use a gun they use their hands feet blunt or bladed weapons and usually kill the person before medical attention can e given. On the other hand guns are used much more to stop violent criminals by normal non law enforcement. So the number of home invasions is going to go up as will murder and rape this is very evident in the fact that places that have strict gun control have much higher violent crime statistics.

There are almost a million people on the Terror Screening Database, Nelson Mandela was actually on the list until 2008. It's a joke and doesn't make us safer. We're all in some database now it seems.

I don't think those are accurate statements, and even if they were, it wouldn't change the fact that a murder or suicide attempt is more likely to succeed with a gun than with some other weapon.

That is one thing I don't quite understand about favoring guns, I wouldn't think all the armed civilians of the U.S.A would stand a chance against their Army.

I learned so much about myself I didn't even know just reading this thread.

Which statements you are going to have be specific. It will change the fact that guns are the only defensive tool a child can use to stop a full grow adult in a home invasion situation same with most women. You want to criminalize people who haven't done anything to stop idiots from doing what they will do no matter what laws are in place. That makes no logical sense things are getting worse not better around the world and one of the only advantages of being in America is we can defend ourselves. People like you want to take that right and ability away piece by piece because you want to make you fantasy world reality that fantasy is a thousand years away at least. Both sides have real issues to deal with that are being put aside to deal with things that wont have solutions for a very long time or weren't even real problems to begin with.

Actually we are the one of the biggest threats the military could face for lots of deferent reasons war isn't as simple as we have big bombs and guns and you don't.

You'd be better off living somewhere else rather than the US when the 2nd amendment goes kaput. China has a pretty good corporate tax rate I hear.
The 2nd is what keeps us who we are. No other country has it, and if one does, tell me.

Don't Tread On Me
Liberty Or Death
In God We Trust
A Well Formed Militia

What does that have to do with anything? I think I'll wait for Dox to help me answer that one.