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adifferentname
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04 Dec 2013, 5:48 am

This has already gone way past the point of being unnecessary spam, imo.



MCalavera
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04 Dec 2013, 5:49 am

azaam wrote:
The pains of labor drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said, 'Oh if only I had died before this time and was something discarded and forgotten!' A voice called out to her from under her, 'Do not grieve! Your Lord has placed a small stream at your feet. Shake the trunk of the palm towards you and fresh, ripe dates will drop down onto you.' (Surah Maryam, 23-25)

Modern medicine shows that squeezing an object during labor facilitates the baby's downward passage through the birth canal. The muscles used during contraction are the same as those that propel the baby outside the womb. Various methods are employed to achieve this, such as pulling on a cord suspended from the ceiling or on arms attached to the two sides of the bed or else holding onto and squeezing someone's hand.

A U-shaped bar, known as a "squat bar," mounted onto the bed during labor is used for that end. Pulling on this bar facilitates the baby's leaving the womb, shortens the length of the birth canal, widens the mouth of the womb and reduces the need for many other devices and techniques during labor.1

This bar helps the mother's squatting motions as she pulls herself up and down on it. It also means the mother remains immobile as the baby emerges.2 In this position, the muscles needed to move the baby down the birth canal expend the minimum amount of energy. In addition, with the expansion of the pelvic bone, 30% more room is made available for the baby to pass through. With the expansion and contraction movement, the body's propulsive force is raised to the highest level and the baby is able to move smoothly during the birth process.

There is great wisdom in the way that, by means of Allah's angels, Hazrat Maryam shook the branches of the palm tree toward her. The Arabic word "huzzee" means "to shake fast, to move or to rock." In addition to dates facilitating birth and having nutritious properties, pulling the branches toward one to shake them and then letting them pull back in another movement also facilitates birth. This technique applied in our own day, is one of the proofs that Allah supported Hazrat Maryam (pbuh) with His compassion and that the Qur'an is the word of our Lord, the Omniscient.


Very creative interpretation, but unfortunately for you, the verse isn't about any of that.

Let's check the context together please as it seems you're not used to checking the context much.

From:
http://quran.com/19

Sura 19:23
And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten."

Sura 19:24
But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.

Sura 19:25
And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates.

Sura 19:26
So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to [any] man.' "

As you can see, she was not instructed to shake the trunk of the palm tree in order to have her labor pains relieved, but to be fed.

In fact, this is how it is usually done in those regions. Of course, it's very unusual for a pregnant woman to do such a thing. In fact, it might even be dangerous for a pregnant woman to do so. But then again, this is the Qur'an after all.



azaam
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04 Dec 2013, 5:50 am

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/predictions_01.html

Much more scientific, predictions, historical, and mathematical miracles.


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MCalavera
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04 Dec 2013, 5:53 am

In fact, these guys need machinery to shake such a tree! Maryam must have been a very powerful woman ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzetMIUYKEc[/youtube]



MCalavera
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04 Dec 2013, 5:56 am

azaam wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
azaam wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Look at the sky and tell me if a roof is what you really see.


Bro. Allah is speaking in literal terms here. Use your intellect sheeesh lol.

What does a roof do? Its protects the building just like the sky.Helloo???


But it's not surprising that ancient people would see the sky as preserved and protected. How often do you think ancient people saw something come down from the heavens to destroy the earth?


Protection against what? What is above the "roof"? They didn't know if there was anything above the sky that we know today. The Quran says protected. Read it carefully and you will know what Allah is talking about.


Maybe you are the one having reading comprehension problems. I said the ancients very likely didn't see anything destructive come down from above the sky towards them, so it's no surprise that they thought of the sky as protected and preserved.



azaam
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04 Dec 2013, 5:57 am

MCalavera wrote:
azaam wrote:
The pains of labor drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said, 'Oh if only I had died before this time and was something discarded and forgotten!' A voice called out to her from under her, 'Do not grieve! Your Lord has placed a small stream at your feet. Shake the trunk of the palm towards you and fresh, ripe dates will drop down onto you.' (Surah Maryam, 23-25)

Modern medicine shows that squeezing an object during labor facilitates the baby's downward passage through the birth canal. The muscles used during contraction are the same as those that propel the baby outside the womb. Various methods are employed to achieve this, such as pulling on a cord suspended from the ceiling or on arms attached to the two sides of the bed or else holding onto and squeezing someone's hand.

A U-shaped bar, known as a "squat bar," mounted onto the bed during labor is used for that end. Pulling on this bar facilitates the baby's leaving the womb, shortens the length of the birth canal, widens the mouth of the womb and reduces the need for many other devices and techniques during labor.1

This bar helps the mother's squatting motions as she pulls herself up and down on it. It also means the mother remains immobile as the baby emerges.2 In this position, the muscles needed to move the baby down the birth canal expend the minimum amount of energy. In addition, with the expansion of the pelvic bone, 30% more room is made available for the baby to pass through. With the expansion and contraction movement, the body's propulsive force is raised to the highest level and the baby is able to move smoothly during the birth process.

There is great wisdom in the way that, by means of Allah's angels, Hazrat Maryam shook the branches of the palm tree toward her. The Arabic word "huzzee" means "to shake fast, to move or to rock." In addition to dates facilitating birth and having nutritious properties, pulling the branches toward one to shake them and then letting them pull back in another movement also facilitates birth. This technique applied in our own day, is one of the proofs that Allah supported Hazrat Maryam (pbuh) with His compassion and that the Qur'an is the word of our Lord, the Omniscient.


Very creative interpretation, but unfortunately for you, the verse isn't about any of that.

Let's check the context together please as it seems you're not used to checking the context much.

From:
http://quran.com/19

Sura 19:23
And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten."

Sura 19:24
But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.

Sura 19:25
And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates.

Sura 19:26
So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to [any] man.' "

As you can see, she was not instructed to shake the trunk of the palm tree in order to have her labor pains relieved, but to be fed.

In fact, this is how it is usually done in those regions. Of course, it's very unusual for a pregnant woman to do
such a thing. In fact, it might even be dangerous for a pregnant woman to do so. But then again, this is the Qur'an after all.


No you are trying to twist the verse for you own benefit again.

Read the verse carefully. The pains of labor drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said, 'Oh if only I had died before this time and was something discarded and forgotten!

She was in pain and the lord instructed her to shake the tree in order to ease the pain. Afterwards, he instructed her eat the dates. She needed food afterwards ofcourse. Also, look up the benefits of dates.


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azaam
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04 Dec 2013, 6:02 am

MCalavera wrote:
In fact, these guys need machinery to shake such a tree! Maryam must have been a very powerful woman ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzetMIUYKEc[/youtube]


You went this far just to find a fault in this verse lool.

Who are we to say that Allah didn't loosen the tree for her? or the tree wasn't hastened to the ground tightly? or it was a small palm tree?

Remember anything is possible with Allah

The question is, Is it possible to shake a palm tree?

Yes, I lived in Saudia Arabia and have shaken many palm trees before.


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azaam
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04 Dec 2013, 6:08 am

MCalavera wrote:
azaam wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
azaam wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Look at the sky and tell me if a roof is what you really see.


Bro. Allah is speaking in literal terms here. Use your intellect sheeesh lol.

What does a roof do? Its protects the building just like the sky.Helloo???


But it's not surprising that ancient people would see the sky as preserved and protected. How often do you think ancient people saw something come down from the heavens to destroy the earth?


Protection against what? What is above the "roof"? They didn't know if there was anything above the sky that we know today. The Quran says protected. Read it carefully and you will know what Allah is talking about.


Maybe you are the one having reading comprehension problems. I said the ancients very likely didn't see anything destructive come down from above the sky towards them, so it's no surprise that they thought of the sky as protected and preserved.


If it was likely that the nothing destructive fell, then what is the need for the Prophet Muhammed to claim that sky is a protection?
Also you know they had storms, hail, heavy rains, and etc and yet the Prophet still claims the the sky is protection. Just because we are in a different time, does't mean that they had disasters.

The question is protection against what? How did he know that without the sky (atmosphere), earth would cease to exist as it does today. Catch my point bro?


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azaam
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04 Dec 2013, 6:11 am

You and I derailed the crap out of this thread.

Anyways I am off to bed.

I just wanted you to see that the Quran does't lie. Anybody that claims so needs to provide me with a clear argument but you can't.

Good bye.


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GGPViper
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04 Dec 2013, 6:13 am

Image



MCalavera
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04 Dec 2013, 6:16 am

azaam wrote:
And the Sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. And We have decreed set phases for the Moon, until it ends up looking like an old palm spathe. It is not for the Sun to overtake the Moon nor for the night to outstrip the day; each one is swimming in a sphere. (Surah Ya Sin, 38-40)


Which is naturally what ancient people observed. You are trying too hard.



MCalavera
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04 Dec 2013, 6:19 am

azaam wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
azaam wrote:
It is Allah Who created the seven heavens and of the earth the same number, the Command descending down through all of them, so that you might know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah encompasses all things in His knowledge. (Qur'an, 65:12)


The verse says "seven heavens", not "seven layers of the atmosphere".

For more information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Heavens

By the way, are there seven layers of the earth as well? :lol:

Quote:
1st layer: Lithosphere (water)

2nd layer: Lithosphere (land)

3rd layer: Asthenosphere

4th layer: Upper Mantle

5th layer: Inner Mantle

6th layer: Outer Core

7th layer: Inner Core

How did the Prophet Muhammed know that there are seven skies (atmospheres)


First of all, there are actually five layers of atmosphere, not seven.

Secondly, what you listed here are supposed to be related to the levels of the earth, not the atmosphere. But even then, you are mixing two separate categorical systems with each other in order to come up with seven. Do you know, for example, that the lithosphere comprises the crust and part of the upper mantle?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithosphere

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere ... pal_layers


There are two other secondary atmospheres so those count too.


No, there aren't. You're just making them up.

But if by "secondary", you mean, within the primary layers, it still means there are 5 primary layers.



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04 Dec 2013, 6:23 am

azaam wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
azaam wrote:
The pains of labor drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said, 'Oh if only I had died before this time and was something discarded and forgotten!' A voice called out to her from under her, 'Do not grieve! Your Lord has placed a small stream at your feet. Shake the trunk of the palm towards you and fresh, ripe dates will drop down onto you.' (Surah Maryam, 23-25)

Modern medicine shows that squeezing an object during labor facilitates the baby's downward passage through the birth canal. The muscles used during contraction are the same as those that propel the baby outside the womb. Various methods are employed to achieve this, such as pulling on a cord suspended from the ceiling or on arms attached to the two sides of the bed or else holding onto and squeezing someone's hand.

A U-shaped bar, known as a "squat bar," mounted onto the bed during labor is used for that end. Pulling on this bar facilitates the baby's leaving the womb, shortens the length of the birth canal, widens the mouth of the womb and reduces the need for many other devices and techniques during labor.1

This bar helps the mother's squatting motions as she pulls herself up and down on it. It also means the mother remains immobile as the baby emerges.2 In this position, the muscles needed to move the baby down the birth canal expend the minimum amount of energy. In addition, with the expansion of the pelvic bone, 30% more room is made available for the baby to pass through. With the expansion and contraction movement, the body's propulsive force is raised to the highest level and the baby is able to move smoothly during the birth process.

There is great wisdom in the way that, by means of Allah's angels, Hazrat Maryam shook the branches of the palm tree toward her. The Arabic word "huzzee" means "to shake fast, to move or to rock." In addition to dates facilitating birth and having nutritious properties, pulling the branches toward one to shake them and then letting them pull back in another movement also facilitates birth. This technique applied in our own day, is one of the proofs that Allah supported Hazrat Maryam (pbuh) with His compassion and that the Qur'an is the word of our Lord, the Omniscient.


Very creative interpretation, but unfortunately for you, the verse isn't about any of that.

Let's check the context together please as it seems you're not used to checking the context much.

From:
http://quran.com/19

Sura 19:23
And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten."

Sura 19:24
But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.

Sura 19:25
And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates.

Sura 19:26
So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to [any] man.' "

As you can see, she was not instructed to shake the trunk of the palm tree in order to have her labor pains relieved, but to be fed.

In fact, this is how it is usually done in those regions. Of course, it's very unusual for a pregnant woman to do
such a thing. In fact, it might even be dangerous for a pregnant woman to do so. But then again, this is the Qur'an after all.


No you are trying to twist the verse for you own benefit again.

Read the verse carefully. The pains of labor drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said, 'Oh if only I had died before this time and was something discarded and forgotten!

She was in pain and the lord instructed her to shake the tree in order to ease the pain. Afterwards, he instructed her eat the dates. She needed food afterwards ofcourse. Also, look up the benefits of dates.


But she wasn't instructed to shake the tree in order to relieve the pain. Maybe the dates have the benefit of relieving labor pains, I don't know. But not shaking a palm tree. The shaking was done to provide food, nothing more.



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04 Dec 2013, 6:26 am

azaam wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
In fact, these guys need machinery to shake such a tree! Maryam must have been a very powerful woman ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzetMIUYKEc[/youtube]


You went this far just to find a fault in this verse lool.

Who are we to say that Allah didn't loosen the tree for her? or the tree wasn't hastened to the ground tightly? or it was a small palm tree?

Remember anything is possible with Allah

The question is, Is it possible to shake a palm tree?

Yes, I lived in Saudia Arabia and have shaken many palm trees before.


Were you pregnant when you did?

And no, I didn't even need to go this far because I had already addressed the primary fault with your interpretation of the verse. But I'm enjoying this, so whatever.



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04 Dec 2013, 6:29 am

azaam wrote:
If it was likely that the nothing destructive fell, then what is the need for the Prophet Muhammed to claim that sky is a protection?


Maybe to point out how durable God's works are?

Quote:
Also you know they had storms, hail, heavy rains, and etc and yet the Prophet still claims the the sky is protection. Just because we are in a different time, does't mean that they had disasters.


Yes, but such disasters were probably not thought to be coming from beyond the sky. I'm just guessing here, but I may be right.

Quote:
The question is protection against what? How did he know that without the sky (atmosphere), earth would cease to exist as it does today. Catch my point bro?


Maybe because it seemed so self-evident to them.



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04 Dec 2013, 6:30 am

azaam wrote:
You and I derailed the crap out of this thread.

Anyways I am off to bed.

I just wanted you to see that the Quran does't lie. Anybody that claims so needs to provide me with a clear argument but you can't.

Good bye.


You got owned. Pure and simple.