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ArrantPariah
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31 Mar 2014, 8:00 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I could care less what people enamored by Ayn Rand think about me.
Raptor wrote:
/\
Have you ever considered that you may in a way at least in part be responsible for some of that enamoration?


Is enamoration even a real word?


https://www.wordnik.com/words/enamoration

I'm missing something. How is Mr. Kraichgauer partly responsible for some people's enamoration with Ayn Rand? :?:

If their enamoration with Ayn Rand is a result of something that Mr. Kraichgauer did, then perhaps he also has the power to undo it?



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31 Mar 2014, 11:42 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
/\
Have you ever considered that you may in a way at least in part be responsible for some of that enamoration?


Is enamoration even a real word?

It is now because I made it a word.

Enamoration: (i-ˈna-mər-′ə-nā′shən) noun
- The act of enamoring or the state of being enamored.

Example: The flaming liberal bemoaned that conservatives were enamored with writings of Ayn Rand, although by his continuous rantings he attributed to his enemies becoming enamorated with Rand's writings.

:P


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31 Mar 2014, 11:46 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I could care less what people enamored by Ayn Rand think about me.
Raptor wrote:
/\
Have you ever considered that you may in a way at least in part be responsible for some of that enamoration?


Is enamoration even a real word?


https://www.wordnik.com/words/enamoration

I'm missing something. How is Mr. Kraichgauer partly responsible for some people's enamoration with Ayn Rand? :?:

If their enamoration with Ayn Rand is a result of something that Mr. Kraichgauer did, then perhaps he also has the power to undo it?


By referencing her as the cause of conservative selfishness at every opportunity it causes the intended target to take a closer look at Rand's writings even if they had not done so before. If a liberals hates something that much there's reason to believe that a conservative might like it.


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Dox47
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31 Mar 2014, 1:05 pm

Raptor wrote:
By referencing her as the cause of conservative selfishness at every opportunity it causes the intended target to take a closer look at Rand's writings even if they had not done so before. If a liberals hates something that much there's reason to believe that a conservative might like it.


That's actually how I came to read her, I got accused of being a "Randroid" so many times as a libertarian that I figured I should probably actually read her work so I could understand what people were talking about, and judge it for myself. Bill, on the other hand, seems content to judge based simply on having it described to him, like someone who hates fish but has never actually tasted it.


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sonofghandi
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31 Mar 2014, 1:41 pm

TallyMan wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
I'm an INTJ.


Ditto.


Double ditto


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31 Mar 2014, 3:09 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
By referencing her as the cause of conservative selfishness at every opportunity it causes the intended target to take a closer look at Rand's writings even if they had not done so before. If a liberals hates something that much there's reason to believe that a conservative might like it.


That's actually how I came to read her, I got accused of being a "Randroid" so many times as a libertarian that I figured I should probably actually read her work so I could understand what people were talking about, and judge it for myself. Bill, on the other hand, seems content to judge based simply on having it described to him, like someone who hates fish but has never actually tasted it.


Rand is on my list of authors to read one of these days. Atlas Shrugged seems to be the one that causes the most butthurt to the left so that'll be where I start, of course.
I don't doubt that most liberals have not read Rand. For them it's more like they heard it from a liberal who heard it from a liberal ,etc....


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31 Mar 2014, 3:24 pm

Dover Publications has her works for a reasonable price.


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Dox47
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31 Mar 2014, 4:36 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Dover Publications has her works for a reasonable price.


The real cost of Atlas Shrugged is slogging through 1000+ pages of Rand beating you over the head with her ideals, which is still worth doing if only so you can honestly comment on the work. My analysis is that it's mediocre fiction from an entertainment standpoint, but pure genius as persuasive writing through allegory, a sort of much longer, blunter Animal Farm if you will.


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31 Mar 2014, 4:40 pm

If it's boring I won't read it.


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Dox47
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31 Mar 2014, 4:50 pm

Raptor wrote:
If it's boring I won't read it.


I wouldn't say boring, more like heavy handed.


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luanqibazao
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31 Mar 2014, 4:59 pm

Raptor wrote:
By referencing her as the cause of conservative selfishness at every opportunity it causes the intended target to take a closer look at Rand's writings even if they had not done so before. If a liberals hates something that much there's reason to believe that a conservative might like it.


Or even someone who's just intellectually curious and open to new ideas. Thirty years ago I didn't have any particular political opinions, but I picked up The Fountainhead in part because I knew the author was controversial.

Consider this: over the last century, people "enamored of" Karl Marx have been responsible for millions upon millions of deaths; admirers of Ayn Rand have invented Wikipedia. Yet someone who comes to a forum such as this openly calling himself a Marxist won't garner anything like the emotional response inspired by the mere mention of Rand's name. Any impartial observer is going to wonder what all the fuss is about.

Mr. Kraichgauer is doing a fine job generating interest in Rand's works, and if he keeps it up I shall contact the Ayn Rand Institute with reference to cutting him a check. :thumright:



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31 Mar 2014, 5:02 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Dover Publications has her works for a reasonable price.


The real cost of Atlas Shrugged is slogging through 1000+ pages of Rand beating you over the head with her ideals, which is still worth doing if only so you can honestly comment on the work. My analysis is that it's mediocre fiction from an entertainment standpoint, but pure genius as persuasive writing through allegory, a sort of much longer, blunter Animal Farm if you will.


I am an oddball in that I greatly enjoy Atlas Shrugged as a work of fiction while disagreeing with the points she makes. It is mediocre and her characters do spend altogether too many pages reciting her points but I love it just the same. It barrels along with one implausible situation after another and is full of heroes and villians that are cartoonishly drawn. Usually that is a condemnation of fiction but it happens to be something that I really enjoy as a form of escapism. I enjoy it unironically, as I also enjoy action movies and over-plotted TV drama- because of the escapist implausibility.

I have a 1943 first edition of The Fountainhead that I inherited from my grandfather when he died. That was my entrance to the weird and entertaining world of Ayn Rand. After devouring that I moved to Atlas Shrugged and then worked my way backwards through her non-fiction works. Working my way backwards through her works it became quite clear where she was coming from and why she felt the way she did. The USSR really did a number on her and it created her worldview. However I'm not seeing the parallels that she so painstakingly drew between the USSR and US Lib Left. Grandad was LibLeft back when there was an actual price to pay (McCarthy) and probably owned her book in the spirit of Know Thy Enemy. He'd probably be horrified that I glommed onto it as pure fiction entertainment. I am apparently one of the few people who found Atlas Shrugged a breeze rather than a slog because I was entertained.

Raptor should read it too.



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31 Mar 2014, 5:27 pm

luanqibazao wrote:
Consider this: over the last century, people "enamored of" Karl Marx have been responsible for millions upon millions of deaths; admirers of Ayn Rand have invented Wikipedia. Yet someone who comes to a forum such as this openly calling himself a Marxist won't garner anything like the emotional response inspired by the mere mention of Rand's name. Any impartial observer is going to wonder what all the fuss is about.

I am not a Marxist, but that's a pretty one eyed way of looking at it, even by the standards of this forum's conservatives*. Totally disregard the huge volume of evils done by the right wing, and totally disregard anything good done by the far left.

*and in case you think that's me being one eyed, some of this forum's left wingers can be even more one-eyed.



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31 Mar 2014, 5:28 pm

Raptor wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
By referencing her as the cause of conservative selfishness at every opportunity it causes the intended target to take a closer look at Rand's writings even if they had not done so before. If a liberals hates something that much there's reason to believe that a conservative might like it.


That's actually how I came to read her, I got accused of being a "Randroid" so many times as a libertarian that I figured I should probably actually read her work so I could understand what people were talking about, and judge it for myself. Bill, on the other hand, seems content to judge based simply on having it described to him, like someone who hates fish but has never actually tasted it.


Rand is on my list of authors to read one of these days. Atlas Shrugged seems to be the one that causes the most butthurt to the left so that'll be where I start, of course.
I don't doubt that most liberals have not read Rand. For them it's more like they heard it from a liberal who heard it from a liberal ,etc....


Who else is on your list?

The_Walrus wrote:
luanqibazao wrote:
Consider this: over the last century, people "enamored of" Karl Marx have been responsible for millions upon millions of deaths; admirers of Ayn Rand have invented Wikipedia. Yet someone who comes to a forum such as this openly calling himself a Marxist won't garner anything like the emotional response inspired by the mere mention of Rand's name. Any impartial observer is going to wonder what all the fuss is about.

I am not a Marxist, but that's a pretty one eyed way of looking at it, even by the standards of this forum's conservatives*. Totally disregard the huge volume of evils done by the right wing, and totally disregard anything good done by the far left.

*and in case you think that's me being one eyed, some of this forum's left wingers can be even more one-eyed.


Interesting observation. Can anyone describe some positive things which have been done by the modern U.S right wing?



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31 Mar 2014, 5:35 pm

luanqibazao wrote:
Raptor wrote:
By referencing her as the cause of conservative selfishness at every opportunity it causes the intended target to take a closer look at Rand's writings even if they had not done so before. If a liberals hates something that much there's reason to believe that a conservative might like it.


Or even someone who's just intellectually curious and open to new ideas. Thirty years ago I didn't have any particular political opinions, but I picked up The Fountainhead in part because I knew the author was controversial.

Consider this: over the last century, people "enamored of" Karl Marx have been responsible for millions upon millions of deaths; admirers of Ayn Rand have invented Wikipedia. Yet someone who comes to a forum such as this openly calling himself a Marxist won't garner anything like the emotional response inspired by the mere mention of Rand's name. Any impartial observer is going to wonder what all the fuss is about.

Mr. Kraichgauer is doing a fine job generating interest in Rand's works, and if he keeps it up I shall contact the Ayn Rand Institute with reference to cutting him a check. :thumright:


Ah, the Marx connection. Somewhere in a past thread I mentioned the deaths attributed to communism to it's defenders here and one of them said many of those deaths (in the tens of millions) were unintentional. Yeah, working people to death, goveremnt imposed famine, firing squads, wars attributed to the spread of communism are unintentional. I guess it's the thought that counts, eh? :roll:

I've mentioned before that Kraichgauer should be getting a sales commission for Rand books sold. He may also be responsible for an increase in Limbaugh's and Glen Beck's and the other conservative boogymen's ratings. You don't have to watch Fox to find out what they're up to, just listen to the nearest liberal screeching about it and spare yourself the commercial breaks.


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31 Mar 2014, 5:36 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
luanqibazao wrote:
Consider this: over the last century, people "enamored of" Karl Marx have been responsible for millions upon millions of deaths; admirers of Ayn Rand have invented Wikipedia. Yet someone who comes to a forum such as this openly calling himself a Marxist won't garner anything like the emotional response inspired by the mere mention of Rand's name. Any impartial observer is going to wonder what all the fuss is about.

I am not a Marxist, but that's a pretty one eyed way of looking at it, even by the standards of this forum's conservatives*. Totally disregard the huge volume of evils done by the right wing, and totally disregard anything good done by the far left.


You're changing the subject. I do not refer to whatever you might judge "left wing" or "right wing," but to admirers of Karl Marx, specifically, and admirers of Ayn Rand, specifically. The terms are not synonymous.