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NobodyKnows
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23 Apr 2014, 8:09 pm

Hopper wrote:
Don_Pedro_Zamacona - I think that particular picture was posted in respons to Devkit's darling little idea that, if only people worked hard, they wouldn't be poor.


He didn't say that. This is what I read in his post:

DevKit wrote:
Posting a picture of people living in an impoverished area with no electricity is kind of silly when were talking about equal pay for women in the developed world isnt it?


DevKit wrote:
it's kind of cold hearted to people who genuinely don't have the opportunities that people in places were both you and I likely live have available to us.


That's a lot different from your "darling little idea".

Hopper wrote:
Also, your observation of the picture that "those 3rd world sweatshop workers are all MEN" might have some power to it if that picture contained the whole combined workforce of all 3rd world sweatshops. I'm going to go out on a limb, and guess it doesn't.


But since we're debating two first-world hardships, the Bakken oil fields are a better comparison:

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Hopper wrote:
NobodyKnows wrote:
(a) "Ban bossy" is a first world problem, so starvingartist's pic doesn't do much to rebut DevKit.

a) Yes, it does. If all one needs to do is work hard, then that applies to everyone everywhere.


The only person who's said that is a fictitious character on youtube named "Patsy Straightwoman":

Hopper wrote:
{"Patsy Straightwoman"}: Because it shows with determination and hard work anyone can be a world champion.


I didn't say that. DevKit didn't say that. DPZ didn't say that.

Hopper wrote:
To admit otherwise is to admit that, maybe, it takes more than a personal commitment to hard work. That maybe there are other factors at play as to how one is materially rewarded beyond than the amount of effort one puts in.


Why would I be even slightly afraid to admit that?

Hopper wrote:
b) Yes, there are. But doing those things does not guarantee making one's life better, nor, in fact, does hard work.


No argument from me. Nothing does.

Quote:
The biggest guarantee to having a good life is having wealthy parents.


No, the biggest guarantee is living in a G8 nation.



Hopper
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23 Apr 2014, 8:46 pm

NobodyKnows wrote:
Hopper wrote:
Don_Pedro_Zamacona - I think that particular picture was posted in respons to Devkit's darling little idea that, if only people worked hard, they wouldn't be poor.


He didn't say that. This is what I read in his post:

DevKit wrote:
Posting a picture of people living in an impoverished area with no electricity is kind of silly when were talking about equal pay for women in the developed world isnt it?


DevKit wrote:
it's kind of cold hearted to people who genuinely don't have the opportunities that people in places were both you and I likely live have available to us.


That's a lot different from your "darling little idea".


Yes. That's Devkit's response to starvingartist's response. starvingartist was responding to this (bolding mine):

Quote:
You are absolutely ignorant of the way the entire fkreaken world works. Nobody on planet earth gets paid what they are worth, they get paid what they close on. This is jut the kind of stupid crap that poverty minded morons talk about. If people had any clue how much hard work it actually takes to be successful they wouldn't have time to be thinking about this dumb crap. You are so unenviable stupid.


Now, I grant you there's a cliche that Americans assume their country is the 'entire freaken world', but if Devkit meant only the US, perhaps he should have been clearer. Because he went on to say:

Quote:
Nobody has ever gotten ahead in life or become happier by blaming all of their failures and success on other people. If yo uwant to take credit for the good things, you have to take responsibility for the problems to. That very fact just seems so unimaginable, so impossible to believe for so many people that they will NEVER get it. And they will never attain the higher levels of success either.


So, either Devkit is grandstanding, or he actually believes his own rhetoric. Either way, he should be a bit more careful with what he says. People might take him seriously. Another possibility is he doen't understand his own rhetoric.


Quote:
Hopper wrote:
Also, your observation of the picture that "those 3rd world sweatshop workers are all MEN" might have some power to it if that picture contained the whole combined workforce of all 3rd world sweatshops. I'm going to go out on a limb, and guess it doesn't.


But since we're debating two first-world hardships, the Bakken oil fields are a better comparison:


Why is it? Also, you keep telling me men work, or do dangerous work, or find it harder to keep work, without expanding on whatever point you're trying to make. It may be obvious to you, but it isn't to me. So, please, if you will keep making it, do so clearly.


Quote:
Hopper wrote:
NobodyKnows wrote:
(a) "Ban bossy" is a first world problem, so starvingartist's pic doesn't do much to rebut DevKit.

a) Yes, it does. If all one needs to do is work hard, then that applies to everyone everywhere.


The only person who's said that is a fictitious character on youtube named "Patsy Straightwoman":

Hopper wrote:
{"Patsy Straightwoman"}: Because it shows with determination and hard work anyone can be a world champion.


I didn't say that. DevKit didn't say that. DPZ didn't say that.


Devkit did. See above. He may not have meant it, but he said it. Even if we assume he's talking just within the US, he still said it, and it's still bollocks. And it does apply anywhere - it has to. Otherwise it grants some other conditions may be responsible for allowing one's 'hard work' to translate into personal wealth.

Quote:
Hopper wrote:
To admit otherwise is to admit that, maybe, it takes more than a personal commitment to hard work. That maybe there are other factors at play as to how one is materially rewarded beyond than the amount of effort one puts in.


Why would I be even slightly afraid to admit that?


Why would you think I would think you would be even slightly etc?

Quote:
Hopper wrote:
b) Yes, there are. But doing those things does not guarantee making one's life better, nor, in fact, does hard work.


No argument from me. Nothing does.


Super.

Quote:
Quote:
The biggest guarantee to having a good life is having wealthy parents.


No, the biggest guarantee is living in a G8 nation.


Same thing, no?

And, within (and without) a G8 nation, a wealthy family is the most likely guarantor of a 'good' life.


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