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Trump says "some groups in [the KKK may be] totally fine"

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Jacoby
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02 Mar 2016, 8:25 pm

100000fireflies wrote:
Drake wrote:
I don't think you should judge Trump or anyone else based on who votes for them. Such a thing is also extremely open to abuse, especially in America with all the money that goes behind candidates. You could pay a few appropriate people off to loudly proclaim their allegiance to someone. They don't even have to vote that way come voting day, they can cast their secret vote any way they want to. Why give such power to such people to effect change like that? At the end of the day David Duke has 1 vote, the same as everyone else, and that's all the power he should have. If you have a friend who's *insert anything you want here*, should you be judged a bad person because of that?


Agreed. Overall. But this is not ultimately a question or concern about who supports trump, it's about who trump supports.


What is the insinuation? That Trump somehow supports David Duke or the KKK? That's just absurd mudslinging, you do now that David Duke and KKK types still think Trump is a race traitor for letting his daughter marry a Jew right? 'But alas they have political opinions of the issues of the day just like all of us, I do not care who they support or why. If they support a candidate that I support then good for them I guess, they tried this same smear with Ron Paul too. I've been watching this biased media for a long time now.



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02 Mar 2016, 8:36 pm

100000fireflies wrote:
Jacoby wrote:

You can believe what you want, I do not care what some biased website says.


The "biased" website does fact checks - which can be further verified. They check statements from all parties.. Even from Jon Stewart. They aren't an anti-right, holy-left site. Though i'm starting to get the sense that anyone or anything that counters trump is simply declared biased.
Nonetheless, i asked you to back up your claims with anything other than because trump said so..

Quote:

Regardless, it doesn't matter if it is deliberate or not because effectively it is true


You just said this whole detailed example of the mexican goverment literally train riding their bad guys over to the US.. But that being true or not is irrelevant?
Meanwhile, over and over about how everyone is blinded by and believing lies they hear.. I would expect if that were the platform of argument, statements made would be adhereing to truth and backed by reputible, verifiable sources.


Politifact plays a game of semantics over stupid things and is definitely left leaning, I do not read the site or care what they publish, they have an agenda of trying to turn political issues in a game of misinformation, lies, and facts when it's much nuanced than that. Why do you cut off parts of my post? I find it very dishonest since I provided an example.

Image

Whether or not it can be proven if it is deliberate or not does not mean that it is not effectively true because that is what is happening. Now can I teleport inside the head Vicente Fox? Well I do know he is a huge New World Order proponent, he is an extremist who wants to erase the borders between the United States, Mexico, and Canada creating a North America Union modeled after the EU. You can look this up, he has said this with his own words. So is it such a crazy thought? I don't think so. It's obvious why he is so opposed to Trump knowing his positions. Vicente Fox, Felipe Calderon, Enrique Pena Nieto, they're not these noble foreign statesmen but politicians just like everyone else. We are not getting Mexico's best, there are rapists and murderers and other criminals among them. There is nothing racist about saying that.



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02 Mar 2016, 9:11 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Obama has been supporting far worse.


Like who?


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02 Mar 2016, 9:31 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Drake wrote:
I don't think you should judge Trump or anyone else based on who votes for them. Such a thing is also extremely open to abuse, especially in America with all the money that goes behind candidates. You could pay a few appropriate people off to loudly proclaim their allegiance to someone. They don't even have to vote that way come voting day, they can cast their secret vote any way they want to. Why give such power to such people to effect change like that? At the end of the day David Duke has 1 vote, the same as everyone else, and that's all the power he should have. If you have a friend who's *insert anything you want here*, should you be judged a bad person because of that?


It's totally ridiculous, you can't control who supports you and why should you be responsible for them? I'm sure lots of murderers and child molesters supported Obama for the presidency too, it would be dumb to say because Obama doesn't address so a ludicrous question that he somehow supports murder and pedophilia which is essentially the media is trying to do here. A broken clock is right two times a day, these racists you all hate and apparently deprive of the humanity that you accuse them of depriving others of all have a right to vote for whoever they want for whatever reason they want. Even if you believe the extremist SPLC which lists everyone left of Stalin as a hate group , there are only a couple scattered groups of the KKK in existence. The KKK at one time was the armed wing of the Democratic Party in the southern United States, they ruled the south with an iron fist and you know who else they targeted besides blacks? Republicans! Once the the GOP made inroads into the south the KKK as a public menace all the sudden disappeared, funny how that worked. If you look at the history of the KKK they are inseparable from the Democratic Party. The great progressive president Woodrow Wilson was the one that welcomed the largest incarnation of the Klan into America, that's where the sheets and burning crosses came from.


In the days when the KKK were all powerful in the south, it is true they were Democrats. But that was a time before the two parties were so polarized along ideological lines. For instance, there were liberal and conservative Democrats, as well as liberal and conservative Republicans. It just so happened that the southern Democrats were the conservative wing of the party. Incidentally, when Ronald Reagan made inroads among southern whites, he played up to the existing racism, saying how white southerners had been humiliated by civil rights legislation, and used coded words like states rights. White southerners were able to switch parties so easily because they were already conservative, and were welcomed with open arms by people who played up to their racism. Sure, the Klan isn't nearly what it had once been, but that has more to do with the triumph of civil rights, and education given to a new generation. And the fact is, those remaining Klansmen are hardly liberal, and hardly Democrats. And as for those Republicans of old who were murdered by the KKK - those were in fact mostly either blacks, or were the so called Carpet Baggers, the liberals of their day who came to help blacks during Reconstruction. Incidentally, if southern Republicans are so great in fighting racism, why do blacks vote Democrat most of the time?


What is your point? Yes, the parties use to not be split ideologically but rather regionally. The KKK was an integral part of the Democratic Party in south when it dominated it, this is a fact. Now their base of supporters no longer support Democrats and all the conservatives from the party has been purged, but that does not mean KKK legacy somehow transfer. As mentioned, why is it that the KKK all but disappeared with the disappearance of the southern Dixiecrats? You can say 'oh the GOP plays to their conservative views' and they deserve the mantle but the reality is that the DEMOCRATIC PARTY, the one that LBJ and Woodrow Wilson were apart of, were the ones that had an armed terrorist wing. There is no terrorist wing of the modern day Republican party in the south so that argument does not work. Now you can repudiate and disavow these people that's fine, altho they all seemed to like the Exalted Cyclops Senator Robert Byrd who was 3rd in line for the presidency between 2007 and 2010.



The Klan was the armed wing of the 20th century Democratic party? Since when?
Incidentally, LBJ personally despised the KKK - and the feeling was mutual, especially since he brought about civil rights legislation. And while Wilson was indeed a racist prick who praised the organization after viewing Birth Of A Nation, it actually had been driven into extinction during Reconstruction, and was only reborn when Wilson was practically a vegetable at the end of his life, so, no, they weren't his legion of doom.
As for Byrd - in fact, he greatly regretted his past KKK affiliation in later life, and unlike David Duke who has made the same claim, his actions actually backed up his words.


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05 Mar 2016, 3:29 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Obama has been supporting far worse.


Like who?


Saudi leaders, Benjamin Netanyahu, ISIS, Petro Poroshenko....


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05 Mar 2016, 3:52 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Obama has been supporting far worse.


Like who?


Saudi leaders, Benjamin Netanyahu, ISIS, Petro Poroshenko....


I seriously doubt Obama is supporting ISIS, in fact, to a moral certainty.
Risking displaying my ignorance, I don't know who Poroshenko is.
And while the Saudi leaders and Netanyahu may be of questionable character, they've received the support of every President before Obama, and will after he's gone.


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05 Mar 2016, 5:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Obama has been supporting far worse.


Like who?


Saudi leaders, Benjamin Netanyahu, ISIS, Petro Poroshenko....


I seriously doubt Obama is supporting ISIS, in fact, to a moral certainty.
Risking displaying my ignorance, I don't know who Poroshenko is.
And while the Saudi leaders and Netanyahu may be of questionable character, they've received the support of every President before Obama, and will after he's gone.


Poroshenko is the first "democratically" elected president of post-coup Ukraine, an ugly state much more oppressive than that under Yanukovych who was overthrown.

I would say Obama shares great deal of the blame, not all or even most, for the rise of ISIS thru the overt and covert support of these Arab Spring uprisings which have left Libya and Syria in a state of civil war that has given Islamic State territory on two continents which has given them credibility and loyalty of Jihadist death cultists born in our own countries. His legacy on foreign policy is a bad one, there are very few silver linings.



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05 Mar 2016, 5:17 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Obama has been supporting far worse.


Like who?


Saudi leaders, Benjamin Netanyahu, ISIS, Petro Poroshenko....


I seriously doubt Obama is supporting ISIS, in fact, to a moral certainty.
Risking displaying my ignorance, I don't know who Poroshenko is.
And while the Saudi leaders and Netanyahu may be of questionable character, they've received the support of every President before Obama, and will after he's gone.


Poroshenko is the first "democratically" elected president of post-coup Ukraine, an ugly state much more oppressive than that under Yanukovych who was overthrown.

I would say Obama shares great deal of the blame, not all or even most, for the rise of ISIS thru the overt and covert support of these Arab Spring uprisings which have left Libya and Syria in a state of civil war that has given Islamic State territory on two continents which has given them credibility and loyalty of Jihadist death cultists born in our own countries. His legacy on foreign policy is a bad one, there are very few silver linings.


Whether or not ISIS owes it's existence to the Arab Spring, I can say with all assurance that he does not support ISIS.
And while I admittedly don't know a lot about Poroshenko, I will say he is clearly opposed to Putin, and so Obama by necessity finds himself supporting the Ukrainian President.


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05 Mar 2016, 5:19 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Obama has been supporting far worse.


Like who?


Saudi leaders, Benjamin Netanyahu, ISIS, Petro Poroshenko....


I seriously doubt Obama is supporting ISIS, in fact, to a moral certainty.
Risking displaying my ignorance, I don't know who Poroshenko is.
And while the Saudi leaders and Netanyahu may be of questionable character, they've received the support of every President before Obama, and will after he's gone.




The Ukrainian leader who helped take down a democratically leader in Ukraine. "may be questionable of character"? Lol. They are both war criminals, who have bombed school children, intentionally. Right, Obama is as bad as any of them. And at least with Trump, he isn't pretending to be an angel.


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JohnPowell
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05 Mar 2016, 5:21 pm

Ooopsy


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05 Mar 2016, 5:23 pm

Obama give Israel around $10 million a day. He funded and support the massacres in Gaza in 2008 and 2014. Obama should be locked up.


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05 Mar 2016, 5:29 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Ooopsy



If I'm remembering the right press conference, Obama, who had been talking about ISIS earlier, had had a brain fart when intending to speak of the Free Syrian Army. This is no different from the time the right had used a verbal flub by the President to prove that he's a Muslim. In both cases, anyone watching the press conference of interview in their entirety would understand the full context, and know it was a slip of the tongue.


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05 Mar 2016, 5:33 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Obama give Israel around $10 million a day. He funded and support the massacres in Gaza in 2008 and 2014. Obama should be locked up.


And who is currently preferable as an ally in the Middle East, opposed to the single true democracy, Israel? I admit, I don't like everything Israel does, either; but on the other hand, it's not like Israel is carrying out unprovoked attacks on Gaza.


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05 Mar 2016, 5:45 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Obama give Israel around $10 million a day. He funded and support the massacres in Gaza in 2008 and 2014. Obama should be locked up.


If there was any culpability for the US side for 2014 Gaza, it was Kerry's ego trip of trying to force negotiations, when there was clear no interest or incentive. Both Bibi and Abbas tried to kill the process as fast as possible, and they were both willing to do whatever it took to do that with disastrous consequences.

You could say the knock on effect triggered the Hamas reaction. However obviously they had spent years building up to that, instead of spending the money they had improving their people's lives.

Obama is the only US President that has made strides to mend ties with Iran or Cuba. So not all good, not all bad.



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05 Mar 2016, 5:49 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Ooopsy



If I'm remembering the right press conference, Obama, who had been talking about ISIS earlier, had had a brain fart when intending to speak of the Free Syrian Army. This is no different from the time the right had used a verbal flub by the President to prove that he's a Muslim. In both cases, anyone watching the press conference of interview in their entirety would understand the full context, and know it was a slip of the tongue.


Certainly a slip of the tongue. He accidentally told the truth. This isn't even surprising when the other video shows that Obama knowingly funded and supported ISIS.


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05 Mar 2016, 5:52 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Obama give Israel around $10 million a day. He funded and support the massacres in Gaza in 2008 and 2014. Obama should be locked up.


And who is currently preferable as an ally in the Middle East, opposed to the single true democracy, Israel? I admit, I don't like everything Israel does, either; but on the other hand, it's not like Israel is carrying out unprovoked attacks on Gaza.


Lol, Israel is a democracy? Strange, considering that they see the West Bank and East Jerusalem as Israeli land and have an apartheid system there. "it's not like Israel is carrying out unprovoked attacks on Gaza." You really ought to educate yourself, that's exactly what Israel has been doing. It admittedly goes in to "mow the lawn". If you're interested I will point you in the right direction.


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