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If the universe is infinite

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b9
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22 Jun 2016, 6:42 am

Deltaville wrote:
Again, you are not making any sense whatsoever. Please spell and correct the syntax of the sentences you are writing!

all i have done is omit capitals. i refuse to hit the shift button when i do not think i need to. the rest of what i wrote may need comma's to space it out in your head, but you should be able to read it as a continuous sentence without pause, but maybe you can not
Deltaville wrote:
You are now passing off as some disturbed person, to say the least.


well i have the courage to entertain my own speculations whether or not they have been thought before by celebrated masters, or whether they violate your laws of "sufficient complexity".
you seem to cling tightly to your education which you can not share adequately with others anyway.
i don't care. in a hundred years we'll both be dead.



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22 Jun 2016, 6:45 am

b9 wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
Again, you are not making any sense whatsoever. Please spell and correct the syntax of the sentences you are writing!

all i have done is omit capitals. i refuse to hit the shift button when i do not think i need to. the rest of what i wrote may need comma's to space it out in your head, but you should be able to read it as a continuous sentence without pause, but maybe you can not
Deltaville wrote:
You are now passing off as some disturbed person, to say the least.


well i have the courage to entertain my own speculations whether or not they have been thought before by celebrated masters, or whether they violate your laws of "sufficient complexity".
you seem to cling tightly to your education which you can not share adequately with others anyway.
i don't care. in a hundred years we'll both be dead.


So for whatever you say, we have no conclusion. No explanation. No references. No rectification.


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b9
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22 Jun 2016, 6:53 am

Deltaville wrote:
So there is no conclusion. No explanation. No references. No rectification.

i think you are a fraud. otherwise you would not tarry with me in such an anxious way for so long.
i have nothing left to say to you other than i am disappointed that i think you are a fraud.
i may be wrong but i will not lose any sleep over it.



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22 Jun 2016, 7:01 am

b9 wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
So there is no conclusion. No explanation. No references. No rectification.

i think you are a fraud. otherwise you would not tarry with me in such an anxious way for so long.
i have nothing left to say to you other than i am disappointed that i think you are a fraud.
i may be wrong but i will not lose any sleep over it.


Firstly, almost every single fact you brought up on cosmology are nonsensical and incorrect. When concurring with Eric on the (incorrect) size of the observable universe, you completely disregard FLRW relativity and the influence of the CC.

Secondly, if you think my stated credentials are chimeric, then certainly you are entitled to believe that this is the case. But you are NOT entitled to make any claims that I am frauding anyone with my credentials in any manner without evidence or proof. This is slander.

If you have proof that I defrauded anyone then you must bring it up, or issue a retraction or apology.

Put up or shut up.


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b9
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22 Jun 2016, 7:06 am

Deltaville wrote:
But you are NOT entitled to make any claims that I am frauding anyone with my credentials in any manner without evidence or proof. This is slander.

If you have proof that I defrauded anyone then you must bring it up, or issue a retraction or apology.

Put up or shut up.

i just said i think it. whatever. take a tablet or something..



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22 Jun 2016, 7:08 am

b9 wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
But you are NOT entitled to make any claims that I am frauding anyone with my credentials in any manner without evidence or proof. This is slander.

If you have proof that I defrauded anyone then you must bring it up, or issue a retraction or apology.

Put up or shut up.

i just said i think it. whatever. take a tablet or something..


Again, if you do not have any proof of your assertion, then keep your mouth shut! It is that simple!


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b9
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22 Jun 2016, 7:26 am

Deltaville wrote:
b9 wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
But you are NOT entitled to make any claims that I am frauding anyone with my credentials in any manner without evidence or proof. This is slander.

If you have proof that I defrauded anyone then you must bring it up, or issue a retraction or apology.

Put up or shut up.

i just said i think it. whatever. take a tablet or something..


Again, if you do not have any proof of your assertion, then keep your mouth shut! It is that simple!

i have no assertion. i just believe in my own head that you are not very smart. i am sorry about that, but i also told you that i was not interested in further interaction with you, so that should satisfy your request for me to shut my mouth. if you respond to this i will leave it to the mods to decide. i am finished talking to you



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22 Jun 2016, 7:29 am

I've always liked musing upon the question; ''what if the universe doesn't need a reason to begin'', what if we can't put the concept into a box or map a progression, maybe we just can't unravel something so bizarre and cosmically cuckoo. When I am in a dream I don't mind that things make as much sense as a symphony of semi colons conspiring to consume a question mark.



naturalplastic
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22 Jun 2016, 8:40 am

The Universe probably started out as a stain on a carpet. Someone tried to wipe it out, and it just kept getting bigger, and bigger.



eric76
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22 Jun 2016, 9:37 am

b9 wrote:
it is not possible that a pair of unbiased dice would "come up sixes" with perpetual rolling.


There is no specific pattern of rolls in a dice that has any greater likelihood than any other pattern of rolls.

In a pattern of a billion rolls, the odds of always being sixes is equally as possible as any other pattern of a billion rolls.



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22 Jun 2016, 9:38 am

Deltaville wrote:
@Eric,

Unless you negate the cosmological constant it is incorrect to assert that our observable universe is only 13.8 billion years.


Why do you claim that?



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22 Jun 2016, 9:43 am

Deltaville wrote:
Whether the universe is flat or positive in curvature, has no bearing on whether it is infinite or finite. It is a common mistake to make such an assertion.


Cites, please.

Unless the theories have changed far more than I think they have since I took my courses in math and physics back in the 1970s, the universe is necessarily finite if the Gaussian curvature is positive and infinite if the curvature is zero or negative.

I would be quite interested in reading up on this if it has changed, so please provide details if it has.



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22 Jun 2016, 10:00 am

Deltaville wrote:
You and Eric are incorrect in the assertion that our observable universe is 13.8 billion years. Both your and Eric's claims would only be correct if our universe operated under a flat and static Minkowski, offshoot of general relativity. The cosmological constant means that galaxies we see that are 13.8 billion light years away, have already 'expanded' away from us! So the claim you are making is utterly incorrect!


I see what you are getting at.

The further apart two objects are that are not gravitationally bound in any way, the faster they go apart, not because they are accelerating but because space is expanding between them due to the big bang. The effect is linear with distance. At some distance the space is expanding so fast that they are going away from each other at the speed of light.

That said, the observable universe refers to how far one can observe today. Not how far away an object can be today that we will be able to see in the future. Remember that under relativity, there is no such thing as simultaneity.

As for the number itself, I looked it up. It could be wrong. The exact number is of far less interest than what is happening and why.



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22 Jun 2016, 10:10 am

Deltaville wrote:
A flat universe shaped as a torus could still have a euclidean geometry, and be finite.


There is no such thing thing as a flat universe shaped as a torus. A flat universe would have curvature zero. A torus has a positive curvature, a negative curvature, or a zero curvature depending on which point on the torus you measure the curvature.



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22 Jun 2016, 10:13 am

eric76 wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
Whether the universe is flat or positive in curvature, has no bearing on whether it is infinite or finite. It is a common mistake to make such an assertion.


Cites, please.

Unless the theories have changed far more than I think they have since I took my courses in math and physics back in the 1970s, the universe is necessarily finite if the Gaussian curvature is positive and infinite if the curvature is zero or negative.

I would be quite interested in reading up on this if it has changed, so please provide details if it has.


This can be found in any cosmology textbook. Time and time again I have said this to everyone on this forum, a flat universe can still be euclidean flat and have light travel in parallel as well as remain finite, if we picture universe as a closed torus (or dedacohedron according to Luminet).


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22 Jun 2016, 10:15 am

eric76 wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
A flat universe shaped as a torus could still have a euclidean geometry, and be finite.


There is no such thing thing as a flat universe shaped as a torus. A flat universe would have curvature zero. A torus has a positive curvature, a negative curvature, or a zero curvature depending on which point on the torus you measure the curvature.



No, your claim is incorrect.

Quickly googled an explanation by Joe Silk that might help you get better at understanding:

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space ... oseph_Silk


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