Magick

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BTW, with all the videos now posting a blank spaces, I'm getting a shield icon in the upper right of Chrome - is anyone else getting the same?

I just checked the Gaga video out - she did the quote-unquote gesture with one hand while her other hand was holding tea. You're really supposed to use two hands with that gesture and I'd love to see how Steve Pinker would evaluate her nonverbal grammar, ie. whether she 'literally' blew it.

That and the interviewer, lol - wow what a lapdog. Definitely not a politician's welcome.

Smudge,

I think I caught what the issue was with videos on your side - ie. you're probably on tablet.

Someone you might find interesting on the esoterica, culture, etc.. front is John Michael Greer. He talks a lot about peak oil but he also has headed a couple magical orders, had a blog called the Archdruid Report because he held that position in the US for a while, and he did the 7th version of the Complete Golden Dawn by Israel Regardie at the beginning of 2016. While he's gotten quite deep into researching politics and culture he also keeps things really practical and does a pretty good job of defining scope.

Granted, Smudge, there are a lot of people making various hand signals and signs, and they are not so secretly these "illuminati" signs, but what does it mean?

Are they all victims of mind control by secret elements within the CIA and other government agencies as the "Monarch/MK Ultra" people believe?

Are they all part of some vast conspiracy together?

Are they satanists who more or less believe what fundamentalist Christians believe but want to be on the losing team?

Are they inhabited by shapeshifting extradimensional aliens-the enitities some think of as demons and others as aliens in UFOs as some insist?

Or could it be that they are doing it because other people are doing it and it's an in thing at the moment?

There are kids in the local high school who affect the style and manners of gang members, but they are not gang members. I'm not sure this is too different than that.

And what about those politicians. Here's President Bush (43) giving a "horns" sign. No mistaking it.

But the thing is, it's the "Hooke 'em horns" sign that fans of the University of Texas/Austin use to show support for the team. The shot that appears to show Bush and his fellow devil worshippers making their occult hand gesture was taken in the stands at a game with the Longhorns.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_'em_Horns

This is hardly unknown, but the "devil cult is everywhere" people reject the evidence that this is something innocent like team support in favor of the theory that it could be a sign that all these people are luciferian conspirators. Does that make sense?

With Crowley, it's unambiguous. He called himself "The Beast 666" and so on. I tend to think this was part of his theatrical showmanship. But there's no doubt that Crowley certainly thought that he was connecting with demons, either actual beings, or archetypes, or thought forms in an imaginary dimension, or some combination of all these things.

But do you think these entities are real and actually controlling people and people are choosing to conspire to empower them and bring them into power over people in this life? That sounds more than a little unlikely, don't you think?

Techstep, I am also seeing the "unauthorised sources" shield.

I meant specifically the hand covering the eye gesture in that video.

I can't view massively long videos because it will use up my internet allowance.

But yeh, I do realise the "Devil" handsign is more ambiguous.

But what does the "hand covering the eye" mean?

Why would Lady Gaga do that? She is some kind of bot that has to do that when someone says "good lord?"

Like a vampire can't cross the threshold unless you invite them in?

Does that really make any sense at all?

And I'll add, you're adding stuff like believing in UFOs and shapeshifters to make my argument sound less valid. I don't believe any of that.

I'll also add, with MK Ultra I don't think it was the leaders and those in power who were being mind controlled. They were more like ordinary people being tested.

Like Snowden revealing the US spying on everyone, why would the US admit to still using MK Ultra on people? Of course they're going to make out they wouldn't do such a thing, or that it was halted in the 70s.

Rather than denying they did anything at all, which would make people more suspicious - the US admitting that they did something wrong and then stopped it, is going to make people more satisfied and think, "Well, they've owned up and told the truth now, and we don't think they're going to do anything bad again, so we don't have to worry anymore".

Again, you're adding words like bot and vampire to make my argument sound worse than it is.

No, you haven't made an argument. You've insinuated things without stating them.

I am using a bit of reductio ad absurdum to try and get you to postively state your argument.

What do you really think it means?

I can read this:
http://illuminatiwatcher.com/decoding-i ... eeing-eye/

Or this:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/musicbusines ... deo-g-u-y/

Or this:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/musicbusines ... lluminati/

But what do you think it all means?

The problem - he wasn't a satanist in that the kabbalistic system he used wasn't inversionary.

The other piece I saw you comment on before and I think needs correction - the Abramelin working is also not inversionary/satanic.

I could unpack either one of those more but I'd rather you ask the questions and follow from there accordingly because I get that Crowley was a troll, a lot of what I'd have to say on this would cut counter-intutively, and to even discuss that I'd need to gauge how interested you are in actually knowing what he stood for and didn't behind all the Andy Kaufmann'isms.

Smudge - the best way I can put it, a lot of people here and on other chat forums have no charity for topics like the one you're bringing up. My best advice is if it impacts your beliefs about the world it's probably worth researching for the sake of knowing your world and getting clarity on what's credible and what isn't. Trying it to hash it out here is probably more trouble than it's worth.

Rest assured, Techstep, I'm reading it all.

I was also interested in your Tarot thread and remarks in the unusual religious experiences thread. I appreciate your efforts.

I am not sure what you mean by inversionary.

My understanding is that Crowley came from an intensely religious family, whose zeal for their version of the faith resulted in harsh, abusive treatment of the child. I came away from reading about that with the impression that he chose to embrace anti- symbols out of rage angainst that childhood, combined with anger at the need to repress his sexual drives.

But he was calling himself the Beast out of a personal context in which that meant the Christian "enemy" no matter what other, more sophisticated understandings he may have been working with. It doesn't make sense to claim that isn't part of it, surely.

To be clear about where I am coming from. I believe in the natural, but feel emotionally connected to ideas of religion and esoteric experience. The Christian fantasies about the pervasive, wicked luciferian conspiracy mostly seems amusing and wrongheaded to me, but kind of a fun mental game to play. Likewise, these magical people seem to be engaged in nonsense, but quite interesting nonsense that also involves fun mental games.

I recognize that these sometimes goofy, often weird systems may afford practitioners novel and personally enlightening experiences and find that fascinating.

Have replayed it several times. The camera makes quick cuts between the two of them so you cant really ever see her actually "make the gesture".

Okay. He says "Good lord". The camera cuts to her for a nanosecond, and it catches her with the palm of her left hand is over her left eye (while she continues to hold that big tea cup with her right hand). And then it cuts back to him.

What I am supposed to see?

Could be pushing hair out of her eye. Could be adjusting that big corsage thing in her hair. Could be a nervous gesture-maybe from realizing that she said something she should not have (that thing about love making).

But lets say it was this specific gesture you're talking about. What does it mean? Why would she make it?

Inversion would be taking a salvific system, like Christianity, and taking the antagonist standpoint. It's about the only thing IMHO that properly constitutes Satanism. I'm note sure if anyone actually does that, about the only organization out there who makes claims in that direction is the somewhat notorious ONA.


A couple pieces to that a) apparently his mother called him the Beast, that part was him walking it out b) he saw the number 666 as a number of distinct solar value - which is correct according to the tradition of planetary number squares (Agrippa being a well known source). The square of the Sun is 6x6 (the way the size of the squares works - the side lengths are the number of that particular sephira on the Tree of Life, Tiphareth, the sphere of the sun, is associated with the number 6 and is the sixth sephira on the Tree of Life - often considered the Christ center). The numbers in the Sun square, like all the other squares fill up the overall square counting upward from 1, such as the Saturn square being 3x3, fills 1-9, adding up to 45. The Sun square fills 1-36 and all of those numbers summed together = 666. Magicians would use these squares as templates for tracing sigils, usually by some kind of numeric rule, and they'd likely adorn that sigil with herbs of that planet, attempt to make that sigil on that planets day (eg. Sunday in this case) on a Solar hour if possible which is a time that can be mathematically derived by a sort of arbitrary rule of dividing the daylight hours by 12 and nighttime hours by 12, first/eighth hours of daylight and third/tenth hours of night.

Pretty much all of his jokes revolved around various aspects of kabbalah, the Book of the Law is just one example where almost everything he's saying is either referencing specific tarot cards most transparently in the speech of Nuit, is a qabalism of some type (which most people will be out in the dark on if they aren't already fairly familiar with qabalah/kabbalah), or is a hyperbolic metaphor and the rest of his books are loaded with that as well - ie. verbal puzzles that people could spend years wading through.

Socially he really was this much of a horses arse and a prankster, in that sense he seems to have a little bit in common with Gurdjieff and they both picked up the initiatory pranking habit from Sufism albeit I think Crowley ran quite far with it because it fit his personality like a glove. There are places where you can check up on that further, particular a couple renditions of exegesis on Book of the Law both by Crowley himself and then Marcelo Motta doing an exegesis on both Book of the Law and Crowley's exegesis.

As for his particular brand of qabalah - it's as salvational, or really oriented (on the 'Great Work' reincarnational mode) to to what's commonly called the Path of Return; pretty close to the esoteric Buddhist ideas.



I'm not sure if I want to bring up his name because I'd hate to see his name get associated as being occult-friendly but the particular professor who did the video I posted a little bit ago (the New Years message) was someone who I was really excited to see actually come out in favor of Jungian interpretations of religion, including Christianity, and putting that as well as social cohesion in context with evolutionary psychology. I think his Youtube lectures and courses really nail a lot of what I've come to think about this stuff and what territory it's digging into.

As far as the supernatural I think that side of it's gotten so bad in terms of public controversy that it's not worth haggling over - people will either consider there being enough evidence or possibly no evidence at all, depending where they're at.

Obviously I think one thing everyone agrees on - there's no Harry Potter outside of fiction. Almost all of these esoteric systems ultimately aim toward internal alchemy because, to suggest there is anything to it, would be such a weak effect that it would barely be enough to do anything aside from a person trying to lift themselves up and out of the system they live in (and I think one of the most telling success stories in that regard was Vivikenanda - who died at 39 and showed the world that you don't get to take it with you).

I'm really not 100% sure what I'll find but I'd agree with you that whether it's meditation, tai chi/qi gong, or ceremony, it seems to be about honing faculties, brain-games, and a lot of NLP that seems to pay off well whether there's an 'other' component to the path or not.

If I'm thinking of the right video, the professor seemed to be under intense emotional and psychological pressure. He gave the impression of someone who was about to have some kind of break or psychological disintegration.

At times he seemed so overcome with internal forces that he could barely verbalize a thought in a coherent sentence. He also mentioned that he had prepared the talk with the help of his son.

I felt that someone should check up on him, perhaps get him some emergency psychiatric care.

Yeah, that particular video was strained and I wasn't sure why. His interview with Gad Saad was good and apparently he'll be on Waking up with Sam Harris in a couple weeks (my guess - remembering Sam's small debate with Douglas Murray over Anglicanism the interview will probably more focus on their political agreements, particularly considering Sam's Spirituality Without Religion they'll probably have a lot less dispute there than some of Sam's viewers might think).