Why do Americans love guns so much?

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RetroGamer87
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11 Mar 2017, 7:27 pm

League_Girl wrote:

I live in the US and it's not bad as you are making it out to be about guns. I don't feel the need to own one and not everyone owns one because I don't.

I'm glad to hear you're unlikely to be a victim of violent crime but the gun lovers do feel a need to carry them.

You're right that the US is probably not as bad as people make it out. Is the US an extremely violent place? Probably not. But remember it's not only us foreigners who falsely claim the US is an extremely violent place, the US born gun lovers make the same claim.

The gun lovers come up with all maner of scenarios about protecting their family against various types of criminals, they seem to think the US is more violent than it actually is.

I can understand you don't like people making the US look bad by claiming it's more violent then it actually is but remember some of those making that claim are actually from the US.

League_Girl wrote:

People don't carry them with them like you have seen in US movies(I think it's illegal?)

Don't some states have concealed carry laws?

After a fun night of arguing with the gun lovers on Facebook it seems like many of them do carry a gun whenever they leave the house, or so they claim.

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AspieUtah
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11 Mar 2017, 7:30 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:

...in 1791 a well regulated militia was nessessary to the security of a free state. Nowadays the state uses a military, not a militia....

The U.S. Supreme Court opinion in the matter of Heller resolved that issue by stating unequivocally that membership in a militia is unnecessary to fulfill the need to keep and bear arms because "well regulated militia[s]" were strictly voluntary and localized, and not "regulated" as many people today understand the word.

RetroGamer87 wrote:

...Does civilian gun ownership protect the security of the state in 2017...?

I would say so. Several federal agencies including the Bureau of Justice Statistics show evidence that incarcerated and previously incarcerated criminals admit to avoiding those communities and individuals that appear most likely to be armed. That appears to me to be evidence that the Second Amendment does, indeed protect state and federal security now as much as it did in the 18th century.

RetroGamer87 wrote:

...I'm not going to tell you what to do with your constitution but it's not unchagable. Look at how the 21st amendment repealed the 18th amendment....

Yes, and even the anti-gun crowd knows it would lose the constitutional requirement to adopt and ratify such an amendment to disable the Second Amendment. Ratifying a constitutional amendment is just about the most difficult thing to accomplish in the United States ... and rightly so.

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kraftiekortie
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11 Mar 2017, 7:32 pm

Just why do you rely on those apparent idiots on Facebook in the formation of your notions?

You are a classic case of someone who should travel to America and meet actual Yanks.

Just like I should come to Australia and meet actual Aussies.

Even a guy like Raptor, no matter how "radical" he seems, would welcome you into his home, and converse with you respectfully. Most Americans don't present themselves like those schmucks on the Internet.

RetroGamer87
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11 Mar 2017, 7:38 pm

True, true. I'm sorry if I was being judgemental or using Facebook shmucks as a measure of Americans. Please don't think I'm anti-American, some of my favourite movies were made in America.

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RetroGamer87
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11 Mar 2017, 7:40 pm

Anyway how were the prohibitionists able to ratify the 18th amendment?

The 18th amendment seems rather tyrannical and as such I would be surprised if it has support from the general population.

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kraftiekortie
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11 Mar 2017, 7:45 pm

Very easily. One or more Congressmen began the process of promulgating the amendment. There must occur a 2/3's majority in both houses of Congress in order to bring the proposed amendment to the states, then 2/3's of the states must approve in order for the amendment to pass and become a part of our Constitution.

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11 Mar 2017, 7:51 pm

The trouble with debating politics is that everyone takes it personally. They feel like in rejecting their ideas I'm rejecting them.

It's the same with all of them. If I disagree with the gun lovers they feel rejected. If I disagree with the feminists they feel rejected. If I disagree with the anti-feminists they feel rejected. If I disagree with the fat acceptance movement they feel rejected. If I disagree with the Christians they feel rejected.

So many people take different ideas as a form or rejection.

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Last edited by RetroGamer87 on 11 Mar 2017, 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AspieUtah
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11 Mar 2017, 7:56 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Anyway how were the prohibitionists able to ratify the 18th amendment?

The 18th amendment seems rather tyrannical and as such I would be surprised if it has support from the general population.

American Prohibition is an interesting topic. The greater part of the movement to outlaw alcohol came from women who had had enough of the destabilization of their families, the abuse against themselves and their children, the economic hardships it caused, and the basic loss of home and family when drunk husbands left for greener pastures ... or died.

The reality of Prohibition was far from today's image of puritanical cranks sermonizing against "the evils of sinful liquor." It had real-life effects that state after state realized and tried to curtail. Unfortunately, the ratification of the Eighteenth Amendment came with its own problems. The same kind of problems that would plague the idea of prohibiting firearms (people would simply make their own; it is a simple matter to build a gun, or resort to other weapons).

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11 Mar 2017, 7:58 pm

Then why don't criminals in gun-controlled nations simply build their own guns?

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kraftiekortie
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11 Mar 2017, 8:03 pm

At times, you're not debating people. You're debating personas. They have no interest in meeting you halfway. They either have an agenda, or are actually having fun at your expense.

AspieUtah
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11 Mar 2017, 8:05 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Then why don't criminals in gun-controlled nations simply build their own guns?

It is a dangerous effort, of course, but knowing someone who understands how to build arms for others could make a big black market living. Of course, why do so many gun-controlling nations like the United Kingdom and Japan still have citizens with illegal arms? Creative individuals will make their own weapons or buy them from other willing people.

It is a lot cheaper and safer for governments to manage lawful firearms than to search and destroy unlawful firearms.

lidsmichelle
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11 Mar 2017, 8:12 pm

I couldn't tell you. I don't like guns at all, and it boggles my mind that people think they need s**t like assault rifles lmao. In general I don't think you need guns if you don't hunt, and people who defend themselves with guns, even with training, are more likely to shoot their own foot than the assailant.

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kraftiekortie
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11 Mar 2017, 8:15 pm

Frequently, people go on the Internet JUST to disagree with you. They are living humdrum lives, and need some excitement.

RetroGamer87
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11 Mar 2017, 8:46 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Then why don't criminals in gun-controlled nations simply build their own guns?

Certainly there are criminals with illegal arms in Australia, mostly in organised crime syndicates. They have the means so procure illegal arms. Petty thieves and scorned lovers do not.

I'm not saying that gun control has any possibility of completely eliminating illegal arms but it can reduce their number and keep them from the most impulsive members of society.

E.g. We don't have school shootings because, while Australia certainly has illegal arms these aren't accessible to angsty high schoolers.

Even if the angsty high schooler knew where to buy black market arms, he most likely couldn't afford them. He can't use his dad's gun because the Aussie dad doesn't own a gun.

I realise the vast majority of American dad's keep their guns locked up but there are certainly exceptions. If some Aussie kid attempted a school massacre with a knife I don't think he'd get too far.

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RetroGamer87
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11 Mar 2017, 8:54 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Frequently, people go on the Internet JUST to disagree with you. They are living humdrum lives, and need some excitement.

True. I get the impression that most of them have never been in a gun fight. Especially given the way some of them tend to underestimate an armed opponent.

If there's even a chance they'd die in a gun fight then it's statistically less likely they've been in one.

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techstepgenr8tion
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11 Mar 2017, 9:26 pm

We're moral and intellectual cripples, and we're compensating for size. It's the only reason for anyone to own a gun or prefer not to just let nature have its way with them.

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