Why are religious people religious?

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22 May 2007, 1:42 pm

Now, absolute truth is a logical necessity ( otherwise consider the statement 'there are no absolute truths').
But there are some 'more religiously inclined' philosophies that argue against the existence of such absolutes. And i guess they do it quite well :lol: i can't remember it's a long time since i looked into this.
All for now, off to get high :twisted:

Ragtime
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22 May 2007, 1:43 pm

Kosmonaut wrote:

i have no idea. i am not on speaking terms with god (whatever that means) to know about his(?) intentions.
All i was saying is that this
"And that setup is actually intentional on God's part. He wants only those who want to believe in Him to know He's real."
is jibberish.

I mean read it over

It really does make sense, actually. In fact, I can't see where you're missing it. Was my sentence self-explanatory? No, definitely not. But the statement itself is correct.

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Mitch8817
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22 May 2007, 1:43 pm

The way I see it, what is 'good', 'right', 'fair', 'just' and 'true' are cultural phenomena. They change from place to place.

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Ragtime
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22 May 2007, 1:57 pm

Sopho wrote:

I don't see Christianity as being coherent at all. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. I don't like how they try telling people how to have sex either. Interfering f***ing perverts.

Well, if you listen to most Christians, you don't have much chance of hearing the truth, sad to say. Most think that since they have the truth, why put great effort into articulating it correctly to others, who probably don't want it anyway? So they throw out gross approximations and pat phrases to people's sincere questions. "Just live and let damn" seems to be their internal motto, to varying degrees. So if you want to understand anything about Christianity, you need read the Bible -- it's as simple as that. Bypass the Catholic Church, and ignore any doctrines you hear along the way until you go to the Source itself, and read it for yourself. Don't let other people (like me) give you the facts; find them for yourself, so that you'll know you're not being shitted. Don't be indoctrinated -- in any direction. Rather, read it, and then you will know what it says. (Anywhere in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John is a good place to start.)
www.biblegateway.com

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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.

Last edited by Ragtime on 22 May 2007, 3:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Ragtime
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22 May 2007, 2:08 pm

Mitch8817 wrote:

Athiesm may be 'too simple', but at least it involves a personal search for meaning instead of accepting given ones.

My best friend of ten years was a bitter atheist until the age of 18. (Side note: He was brought up in the Catholic church -- and rejected it when he accepted Christ, because he realized much of Catholic doctrine is in direct contradiction to Scripture.) He said he used to rail openly and vociferously against Christians everywhere he found them, telling them they were fools, and arguing his case passionately, trying to tear down their belief systems. He says he hated them. But, he said, through all that time, he was searching for the truth. And that's the difference. Some search sincerely for the truth, while others try to make the truth in the image of their preferred and/or present status. Jesus said He came to bring sight to the blind (those earnestly seeking the truth, who know they are blind), and to take away sight from those who see (the arrogant, who say falsely that they see the truth).

And Mitch, I don't think you can say that atheism necessarily involves a personal search for truth. Too often, it quickly concludes in not giving a rat's ass about anything. So reports my formerly-atheist best friend, who is now a very driven theologian and international missionary.

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Mitch8817
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22 May 2007, 2:16 pm

Ragtime wrote:

And Mitch, I don't think you can say that atheism necessarily involves a personal search for truth. Too often, it quickly concludes in not giving a rat's ass about anything. So reports my formerly-atheist best friend, who is now a very driven theologian and international missionary.

I was just making the point that for athiests, no absolute truths are given and they must discover, explore and make sound judgements on those they choose to subscribe to. If you say you're Catholic then you're Catholic all the way - it's all or nothing with their strong beliefs.

Thanks for the interesting discussion too, by the way.

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Ragtime
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22 May 2007, 2:21 pm

Mitch8817 wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Indeed, discussions are good. I personally know a girl who converted from a mainline conservative Christian denomination to Catholicism. When asked why, her answer was that it was more fun. Think she really believed?

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Last edited by Ragtime on 22 May 2007, 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JonnyBGoode
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22 May 2007, 2:21 pm

Mitch8817 wrote:

The way I see it, what is 'good', 'right', 'fair', 'just' and 'true' are cultural phenomena. They change from place to place.

So you are saying that for some culture, somewhere, torturing babies for fun might be 'right'? Does an entire culture or population embracing something as 'right' - make it so? Or can it be wrong, regardless of what the culture believes?

Was Hitler's gassing of six million Jews and millions of others, right? Right for their culture, but perhaps not for ours? Or is genocide morally reprehensible regardless of culture?

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Ragtime
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22 May 2007, 2:26 pm

Mitch8817 wrote:

I am not aware of any 'absolute truths' existing (hence my use of ' ' in using the term). Can you name any?

Laws of Nature?

One can step off a dangerously-high cliff, and pronounce, "I subscribe to a different doctrine". Nonetheless, his body will soon subscribe to gravity.

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Last edited by Ragtime on 22 May 2007, 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mitch8817
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22 May 2007, 2:29 pm

JonnyBGoode wrote:

Mitch8817 wrote:

The way I see it, what is 'good', 'right', 'fair', 'just' and 'true' are cultural phenomena. They change from place to place.

I'm glad you asked. Some things humans will find naturally repugnant and aversive, I think it's ingrained - if you want to know why, ask me when it's not 5am

. From an evolutionary perspective, it would be that species propagation is limited if you go around killing babies. Others would say that such things as kinship and maternal instinct would naturally dictate that such things are 'wrong'.

Again, everything depends on circumstances. Is killing someone always wrong?

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Kosmonaut
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22 May 2007, 2:30 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Kosmonaut wrote:

It really does make sense, actually. In fact, I can't see where you're missing it. Was my sentence self-explanatory? No, definitely not. But the statement itself is correct.

Well this is how i understand what you said:

"And that setup is actually intentional on God's part. He wants only those who want to believe in Him"
You assume that 'God' exists, that 'God' has a gender ( male), and that you know his intentions.

"to know He's real"
so assuming he exists, you now say you know he is real.

Marvelous :lol:

You are right, it is not at all jibberish.

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22 May 2007, 2:31 pm

Sopho wrote:

Paula wrote:

there are far more hypocrits in people without faith then those who have faith.

How?

We're all hypocrites.

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JonnyBGoode
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22 May 2007, 2:34 pm

Mitch8817 wrote:

Is killing someone always wrong?

No. But then, I never set it up as an absolute.

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Ragtime
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22 May 2007, 2:34 pm

Mitch8817 wrote:

But does not 'absolute truth' only exist if there is indeed a God?

If absolute truth does not exist, then you immediately have that absolute truth!

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Last edited by Ragtime on 22 May 2007, 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mitch8817
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22 May 2007, 2:39 pm

I am advocating no absolute truths. Remember, I asked for someone to give me evidence of one. I personally believe in moral relativism, hence my assertion of circumstance (forgive these fancy words, I'm in the middle of writing a pain-in-the-ass essay and it's carrying over )

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22 May 2007, 2:44 pm

google is your friend

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