20 Jun 2017, 7:51 pm
20 Jun 2017, 8:44 pm
Actually, it is defies logic. When you break the processes down, the evolutionary theory seems contrary to logic. I don't have time to go into every detail of debate, because I have been doing this for years, and it would take 100 pages in a thread if not more. But I'm going with logic, that evolution is actually not logical in any sense of the word.
<chuckle>
'People benefit from being open minded, but not to the point where their brain falls out'...
Not a snow balls chance in...errr...hell of you convincing me...
And seemingly, visa versa...
To each their own...
We will have to agree to disagree...
Pax...
20 Jun 2017, 9:06 pm
Yes, most intelligent people accept things that are demonstrably accurate.
What we have today isn't even just Darwins evolutionary theory; it was merged with Mendelian genetics in the 1930s, and with the completion of the Human Genome Project in 2003, we are basically at a point where we can read our own source code. Guess what we're not finding there? I'll give you a hint: "dog, but backwards".
Which god? And which version of that god? Considering the number of gods humankind has made up throughout its history, the likelyhood that your interpretation of your version of your specific deity should happen to be the single true one out of millions of false ones is, shall we say, slim.
Which is religion pretending to be scientific though lies and obfuscation. Kitzmiller v. Dover.
"Kind" is an insufficiently specific term for scientific purposes.
If that were true, then there would be no fossil record at all. All creatures would be as they were and would remain as they are for all time. This is not so. Furthermore, considering the number of species that humans have themselves driven to exctinction, such a "perfectly designed" ecosystem would have imploded by now.
Suppose I use antibiotics to kill a population of germs, and a few of the germs happen to be immune to that antibiotic and as such can thrive and multiply whilst their brethren perish. Suppose that population grows until I use another antibiotic and repeat the same process. Should I not expect to end up with a population of germs resistant to multiple kinds of antibiotics, and instead test for the presence of demons?
That much is evident.
Certainly imaginitive.
Let me guess, you asked your biology teacher about cosmology, and proclaimed victory when they failed to answer?
Look up the term "null hypothesis", and understand that god isn't it.
Do you understand the concept of a consensus? We do not entertain those who would suggest alchemy be taught over chemistry. We pay no mind to people suggesting maybe phlogiston is actually real and adherents to Lamarckian evolution are rightly laughed at and shunned from serious scientific discourse.
Acceptance in the face of a mountain of evidence the magnitude of which is by now nigh unfathomable is not indoctrination, and what sense does it make to hold animosity toward something that you don't believe exists? There are some people who make it their mission to fight ignorance with knowledge, and where ignorance flourishes, so do gods. A coincidence, I'm sure.
People have died for proposing that maybe god isn't a necessary component of the universe. Get back to me when the reverse can be said to be even remotely true.
“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”
-the man himself
Good grief, Charlie Brown, you have some spare time...
I am in total agreement with your position, but there is a cringe worth aspect to your 'cat playing with a mouse' approach...
I'm sure you would agree that there isn't any chance of convincing someone who embraces emotionalism...
It gives many people a sense of meaning in life, and most won't give that up no matter how rational a person/argument may be...
I suspect you might be trying to protect other more vulnerable individuals from what we consider irrational philosophies?
Or are you simply honing your debating skill?
Play nice...
That's an order!
jrjones9933
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20 Jun 2017, 9:16 pm
20 Jun 2017, 11:25 pm
21 Jun 2017, 1:32 am
21 Jun 2017, 3:30 am
21 Jun 2017, 10:17 am
This particular topic is one quite close to my shriveled carcass of a heart (dreams of scientist-dom), so I let myself indulge my spergdom a little. Doesn't take much time once you get a good steam going. Also, I'm unsure if "linguistic masturbation" is a thing, but if it is I'm probably guilty of it.
I aim for entertaining, but I'll settle for cringe if needs be.
"'cat playing with a mouse' approach"...that pleased me more than it probably should have...
My hope of convincing the OP is admittedly slim, so I hope instead that people more on the fence than I will read threads like these and understand how laughably lopsided the discussion actually is. People bound to irrational ideas by emotional means aren't going to be swayed by the likes of me, I'm sure.
That is certainly one of my primary goals.
There are creationists with which I've done that. This is not one of them.
That's an order!
Oh, you're no fun.
21 Jun 2017, 2:27 pm
funeralxempire
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21 Jun 2017, 4:25 pm
21 Jun 2017, 4:48 pm
What kind of evolutionary biologist meets your standard of proof. Can he believe in Ancient Aliens?
Remember, atheists are now seeker-friendly. (A wordplay on seeker-friendly, non-congregational Christians.) Atheism no longer denies any superstition, ever, anywhere, so much as positing a materialistic cause. Black cats might be statistically associated with bad luck, and some cow has possibly jumped over the moon, somehow. They've literally come up with a palatable explanation for flying reindeer, with God as my witness.
They're saying that Intelligent Design and Christianity are not necessarily the same thing.
All structured information is a form of language, so requires a decoder or reader. Also, disorder grows over successive transmissions. There is no tagged, serial-numbered example of a beneficial mutation.
A gene associated with some resistance to hepatitis is linked to a greater prevalence of Lupus. One associated with a resistance to malaria is linked to a prevalence of sickle cell anemia. The antibiotic resistant bacteria have lost the coding to create an enzyme. By some calculations, any specie will become inbred, over time, meaning it would be designed for obsolescence, or, if design is a religious word, they devolve and become extinct.
A possible exception to the rule was unstable hybrids, from disparate species, but this was presented in a spurious manner, such as humans being the offspring of pigs. The now-politically-incorrect Ariel suggested hybridization, in anti-abolitionist literature.
Really, evolutionism has claimed a sort of miracle, which no living person has ever witnessed. The beneficial mutation or missing link are like hen's teeth, four leaf clovers and unicorns. You possibly have materialistic explanations for those, but not for information out of the void. The proverbial explosion in the typewriter factory does not write a book, although you have told us why the Red Sea can part for Moses, on cue, and close upon the Egyptians.
The materialists possibly work harder, on making the case for religion than for materialism, nowadays, but, at least we are allowed to believe in leprechauns or the Easter Bunny. 
I almost want to be a materialist, so I am allowed to talk about Creationism. I am almost converted to your religious view. Possibly, after a few more decades of monkey-trial threads. My resistance is weakening. 
funeralxempire
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21 Jun 2017, 4:58 pm
If that's all you can come up with, name her or him. For extra bonus points name someone credible.
21 Jun 2017, 5:01 pm
Noone was going to be "credible" enough.
This wasn't my first rodeo.
Use objective language. Then, I will believe this is an intellectual, and not political, discussion.
Last edited by friedmacguffins on 21 Jun 2017, 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
funeralxempire
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21 Jun 2017, 5:02 pm
Noone was going to be "credible" enough.
This wasn't my first rodeo.
It looks like you got no one at all, not even someone of questionable credibility.
21 Jun 2017, 5:04 pm
funeralxempire
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21 Jun 2017, 5:10 pm
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