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Why aren't atheists agnostic?

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Ragtime
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27 May 2007, 1:50 pm

greenblue wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Umm, it wasn't meant to. I quoted verses to show why I have the theory I mentioned. Quoting the Bible shows those who don't believe in it why someone who believes in it might draw a certain conclusion from it.

Yes, and that always have been a problem


Huh?

The Bible is not the "Word of God" is just a book written by people who believed the world was flat.


That came out of nowhere! :o Whether or not the Bible is the "Word of God" is irrelevant to this discussion. The only fact I stated is that I believe the Bible. Are you disputing that? I don't understand.



greenblue
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27 May 2007, 1:58 pm

Ragtime wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Umm, it wasn't meant to. I quoted verses to show why I have the theory I mentioned. Quoting the Bible shows those who don't believe in it why someone who believes in it might draw a certain conclusion from it.

Yes, and that always have been a problem


Huh?

The Bible is not the "Word of God" is just a book written by people who believed the world was flat.


That came out of nowhere! :o Whether or not the Bible is the "Word of God" is irrelevant to this discussion. The only fact I stated is that I believe the Bible. Are you disputing that? I don't understand.

You're right, but people who quote the Bible do it because they believe that is the final word.
Like in the anti-gay prejudice issue, you said something like "It's not me, it's in the Bible".



Ragtime
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27 May 2007, 2:10 pm

Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Xenon wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
greenblue wrote:
And quoting the Bible doesn't do much for people who don't believe in it.


Umm, it wasn't meant to. I quoted verses to show why I have the theory I mentioned. Quoting the Bible shows those who don't believe in it why someone who believes in it might draw a certain conclusion from it.


Doesn't that just boil down to using "Because the Bible says so" to back up whatever it is you are trying to say? To a non-believer, it doesn't really have much effect.


Fine. If it has no effect, then it's immaterial to object to. It's something called: explaining my position. Discussion is not possible without it. You're being offended by my explaining where I'm coming from, and I don't see why.

Yes but you're not explaining your position properly.


Does anyone else still think this?



Sayuri
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27 May 2007, 2:12 pm

I'm in absolute awe of what I already have, and can't explain. Like my existance in general. Being able to see (my favorite sense). My son's eyes, his smile. Feeling love. Personal emotional expansion in any direction. Even emotional combustion. Tactile feelings like velvet or sandpaper. Observance of concurrent existance. Reason and abstraction. Gentle or wild. If I never have anything else in eternity, I'm grateful.
'Why' and 'what' are the root of philosophy. We can reason and search, but will we ever know? Why the existance of three dimensional physical matter propelled in time generating life? Intuition of infinity in all directions. For a reason?
So what if we dream and wish for redemption and paradise? We can, so why not?



Ragtime
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27 May 2007, 2:20 pm

greenblue wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Other animals do not seem to sit around trying to explain their own existence etc. Humans do. But because we're not intelligent enough to comprehend these kind of things, we create religions and belief systems to help up feel more secure. Other animals don't need this.

AMEN! 8)


I wonder why? Seems kind of random that one "animal" -- the smartest -- has this problem, and the entire rest of the animal kingdom does not. Guess it's just a fluke, huh?



Sopho
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27 May 2007, 2:21 pm

Ragtime wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Other animals do not seem to sit around trying to explain their own existence etc. Humans do. But because we're not intelligent enough to comprehend these kind of things, we create religions and belief systems to help up feel more secure. Other animals don't need this.

AMEN! 8)


I wonder why? Seems kind of random that one "animal" -- the smartest -- has this problem, and the entire rest of the animal kingdom does not. Guess it's just a fluke, huh?

Having a human brain isn't necessarily a good thing; yes, you can argue we're more intelligent, but we also suffer from mental illness, psychopaths, sociopaths, extremists and religion. I'd say there are more disadvantages than advantages.



Ragtime
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27 May 2007, 2:22 pm

greenblue wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Umm, it wasn't meant to. I quoted verses to show why I have the theory I mentioned. Quoting the Bible shows those who don't believe in it why someone who believes in it might draw a certain conclusion from it.

Yes, and that always have been a problem


Huh?

The Bible is not the "Word of God" is just a book written by people who believed the world was flat.


That came out of nowhere! :o Whether or not the Bible is the "Word of God" is irrelevant to this discussion. The only fact I stated is that I believe the Bible. Are you disputing that? I don't understand.

You're right, but people who quote the Bible do it because they believe that is the final word.
Like in the anti-gay prejudice issue, you said something like "It's not me, it's in the Bible".


Stay on topic: Am I explaining my position, or aren't I?



greenblue
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27 May 2007, 2:31 pm

Ragtime wrote:
I wonder why? Seems kind of random that one "animal" -- the smartest -- has this problem, and the entire rest of the animal kingdom does not. Guess it's just a fluke, huh?

Quote:
Animals don't have Self Awareness, that disallows them of Religion and Philosophy.

Humans are the only species on earth to have self-awarness, that is why religion exists, and is exclusively human.



Sopho
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27 May 2007, 2:32 pm

And why do you put the word 'animal' in inverted commas, Ragtime? Humans ARE animals. It is a fact.



greenblue
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27 May 2007, 2:43 pm

Sopho wrote:
And why do you put the word 'animal' in inverted commas, Ragtime? Humans ARE animals. It is a fact.

Humans are also animals? :roll:

Let me see...
We have bones, we have organs, we have skin, we have blood, we eat, we breath, we have sex, we reproduce, we sleep, we poop, we are born, we die.

Yes, it looks very much like it
Except for the brain, of course, and the fact that we don't have too much hair :mrgreen:



Ragtime
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27 May 2007, 2:44 pm

greenblue wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
I wonder why? Seems kind of random that one "animal" -- the smartest -- has this problem, and the entire rest of the animal kingdom does not. Guess it's just a fluke, huh?

Quote:
Animals don't have Self Awareness, that disallows them of Religion and Philosophy.

Humans are the only species on earth to have self-awarness, that is why religion exists, and is exclusively human.


How conspicuous of us. It's almost as if we're special or something. We can dare to dream, but they can't.



Sopho
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27 May 2007, 2:44 pm

greenblue wrote:
Sopho wrote:
And why do you put the word 'animal' in inverted commas, Ragtime? Humans ARE animals. It is a fact.

Humans are also animals? :roll:

Let me see...
We have bones, we have organs, we have skin, we have blood, we eat, we breath, we have sex, we reproduce, we sleep, we poop, we are born, we die.

Yes, it looks we are
Except for the brain, of course, and the fact that we don't have too much hair :mrgreen:

Snaks don't have much hair either. Humans aren't the only animals with brains. It is scientific fact that humans are animals.



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27 May 2007, 2:57 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Fine. If it has no effect, then it's immaterial to object to. It's something called: explaining my position. Discussion is not possible without it. You're being offended by my explaining where I'm coming from, and I don't see why.


I'm not offended. Not in the least. I'm simply stating that using the Bible as justification to a non-believer is futile and irrelevant. Explaining your position is fine, but can you explain it without reference to Chapter and Verse? People who use Bible quotes as their explanations for their viewpoints come across as people who let a book do their thinking for them instead of thinking for themselves. And before you object, I have met Christians who are able to do this.


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greenblue
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27 May 2007, 3:05 pm

Sopho wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Sopho wrote:
And why do you put the word 'animal' in inverted commas, Ragtime? Humans ARE animals. It is a fact.

Humans are also animals? :roll:

Let me see...
We have bones, we have organs, we have skin, we have blood, we eat, we breath, we have sex, we reproduce, we sleep, we poop, we are born, we die.

Yes, it looks we are
Except for the brain, of course, and the fact that we don't have too much hair :mrgreen:

Snaks don't have much hair either. Humans aren't the only animals with brains. It is scientific fact that humans are animals.

Reptiles and anfibians don't have hair either :P
Yes, I state that there are animals who are smart and a have some form of reasoning, but not as sofisticated as the human brain. But, is that a good thing actually?



Last edited by greenblue on 27 May 2007, 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sayuri
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27 May 2007, 3:05 pm

I'm an animal, and I'm proud of it. I can reason and question why and can believe something or not. Proud of it too. I don't know if other animals can or not.
I have an instinct about life after death. I sensed the presence of my brother when he died. A friend who died also. I didn't really believe before these two, but now I do. It is too hard to describe, and I don't tell many people because it's a personal thing, but in this forum it's appropriate I guess.
I assume I'm not the only one, based on accounts of others I've heard or read about.
Thankfully no alien abductions though!



greenblue
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27 May 2007, 3:10 pm

Sayuri wrote:
I'm an animal, and I'm proud of it. I can reason and question why and can believe something or not. Proud of it too. I don't know if other animals can or not.

From now on, I won't feel offended when someone tells me I am an animal :wink:
I agree we are part of the animal species, how can we be a different form of life?