Nazis are the enemy.

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EzraS
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17 Aug 2017, 3:50 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

From posts on the matter from the more conservative element here, there is talk about Nazis having the right of free expression, while implying that anti-racist demonstrations are violent and illegitimate. WP conservatives on related threads have already defended the Nazis by saying that they had had a permit, while the counter demonstration did not. Sometimes doing the right thing means marching without a permit.

The person who brought that up to me irl is a Mexican American relative of mine. So at least in that case it's not just a white man's perspective.

Kraichgauer
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17 Aug 2017, 3:54 pm

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

The person who brought that up to me irl is a Mexican American relative of mine. So at least in that case it's not just a white man's perspective.

There are also crazy brown people.

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EzraS
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17 Aug 2017, 4:07 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

The person who brought that up to me irl is a Mexican American relative of mine. So at least in that case it's not just a white man's perspective.

There are also crazy brown people.

Stating a fact is crazy?

sly279
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17 Aug 2017, 4:33 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

They're everyone's rights - even people we, and you, can't stand.

Yes, absolutely; but again, the rest of us have the right to speak out against them.

Speak yes, show up wearing masks with hats and assault them no.
Should have held their counter protest a few blocks down, would gotten the same attention and avoided any conflict. But antifia wanted conflict and came prepared to start it. Mlk would not have done what they do. He was against violence.

sly279
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17 Aug 2017, 4:43 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

No, the problem is certain people defending the racist right from behind selective talk of rights.

"Selective talk of rights"?

This you'll have to provide examples of, especially in light of those you've allied yourself with advocating that "Nazis" (as defined arbitrarily and whimsically by so-called "anti-fascists") are fair game for violence.

So tell me, Bill. Who are the people "defending the racist right from behind selective talk of rights"?

Kraichgauer wrote:

There have been in the past members that had promoted out-and-out racism. None of them lasted long on this forum.
I was not referring to WP in my post, but rather the types who had marched in the Unite The Right rally.

Whereas I referred explicitly to PPR. You could at least read my posts before responding. :roll:

These are not mutually exclusive positions, nor are they selective application of rights. The arguments you're presenting lack any nuance, and I'd be surprised if they were actually representative of anyone's opinion, but even were we to assume they are, it's not necessarily selective by any metric other than "was violence used/advocated?".

Quote:

WP conservatives on related threads have already defended the Nazis by saying that they had had a permit, while the counter demonstration did not. Sometimes doing the right thing means marching without a permit.

Was it the right thing, though? Was the behaviour of the "counter demonstration" a contributory factor to hostilities? As far as actual Nazis are concerned, I find the best option is to ignore them as befits their insignificant fringe status.

Quote:

And yes, I did read your post, but I tend to have a stream of consciousness thing going on.

As do many of us, I'm sure. Not a good excuse for causing confusion through inattention, however.

As far as I'm concerned, the Nazis had intended to provoke a violent response with their racist, homophobic, and Antisemitic chants and insults. Just like that racist goon driving into the crowd of counter protesters was premeditated.

They just wanted media attention. Which antifia gladly gave them.
From what I've heard some antifia hit his car with bats. Where he went wrong was backing up over them before driving away. If you're in a car sourounded by angry people hitting your car, you are legally allowed to use any force needed to get away. In such a situation I'd run people,over too rather then allow them to pull me out and beat me to death, they might not intend to but angry crowds have a tendency to let things go to far.only takes one rightly place hit or kick to kill a person . Remember that truck driver in the la riots. Though I'd probably pull my gun first and if they didn't stop then drive off unfortunately running them over.
Sorounding someone's car is technically kidnaping which is a felony. You can't prevent someone's path of travel. I learned this in security class cause some security guards would park their car blocking the suspects car in thus preventing them from leaving, thus restraining them against their will thus kidnaping.
FYI to,protester if you block a road will move temporarily to let care pass.
Frankly what would you do if you're car with your family got sourounded by an angry mob?

KagamineLen
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17 Aug 2017, 4:56 pm

The Americans who died on Normandy beach are alt-left. They didn't have a permit to crash the alt-right demonstration that was going on there. Those monsters!

adifferentname
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17 Aug 2017, 5:15 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, the Nazis had intended to provoke a violent response with their racist, homophobic, and Antisemitic chants and insults.

As far as I'm concerned, your posts are intended to provoke a violent response by denying people agency and arbitrarily assigning uncharitable intentions to their decision making.

Is violence now justified against you? That's literally the standard you're applying, after all.

Quote:

Just like that racist goon driving into the crowd of counter protesters was premeditated.

You consulted with him prior to the event? What else did he confide to you?

How rigorously were you interrogated by the cops?

rick sanchez
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17 Aug 2017, 5:46 pm

Drake wrote:

The nazis are playing by the rules. Their opponents are not. They think they're above the law.

What f*****g bizarro world do you live in?

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KagamineLen
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17 Aug 2017, 5:48 pm

rick sanchez wrote:

Drake wrote:

The nazis are playing by the rules. Their opponents are not. They think they're above the law.

What f*****g bizarro world do you live in?

Arguing against Drake's sentiment will earn you a warning here.

rick sanchez
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17 Aug 2017, 5:50 pm

Drake wrote:

The nazis are playing by the rules. Their opponents are not. They think they're above the law.

Really, whos rules? They came prepared for violence with sticks, shields, milk to treat pepper spray. What rules were being followed wheb the nazi drove into the crowd?

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EzraS
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17 Aug 2017, 7:16 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, the Nazis had intended to provoke a violent response with their racist, homophobic, and Antisemitic chants and insults.

And they were given what they wanted in spades. If those scumbags had just done their tiki torch hate chants and gone home, perhaps most of the nation/world wouldn't have paid much attention to it.

But instead they ended up getting international headline media coverage, fueling them greatly. Perhaps the counter protest, whilst a noble endeavor, was counter productive.

Last edited by EzraS on 17 Aug 2017, 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rick sanchez
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17 Aug 2017, 7:21 pm

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, the Nazis had intended to provoke a violent response with their racist, homophobic, and Antisemitic chants and insults.

And they were given what they wanted in spades. If those scumbags had just done their tiki torch hate chants and gone home, probably most of the nation/world wouldn't have even known it occurred.

But instead they ended up getting international headline media coverage, fueling them to no end. Perhaps the counter protest, whilst a noble endeavor, was counter productive.

Was it? Seems like a lot of people have been forced into a decision. How many GOP politicians have had to denounce the nazis?

And trump has been forced into exposing his true beliefs.

Do you still prefer your subjective, palatable "truth"?

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EzraS
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17 Aug 2017, 7:36 pm

rick sanchez wrote:

Was it? Seems like a lot of people have been forced into a decision. How many GOP politicians have had to denounce the nazis?

They could have just been asked for a statement regarding nazism.

rick sanchez wrote:

And trump has been forced into exposing his true beliefs.

“Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to all that we hold dear as Americans.” - Donald Trump

rick sanchez wrote:

Do you still prefer your subjective, palatable "truth"?

Non sequitur - does not follow.

redrobin62
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17 Aug 2017, 7:39 pm

You know, it's too bad that there are people out there who would hate and destroy me for how I was born, as if I had a choice.

"Let's kill Robin. He's black."
"Let's kill Robin. He's gay."
"Let's kill Robin. He's autistic."
"Let's kill Robin. He's an immigrant."
"Let's kill Robin. He's part Chinese."
"Let's kill Robin. He collects SSDI because he has bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety, PTSD, gout, HTN and diabetes."

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EzraS
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17 Aug 2017, 7:50 pm

The less attention they're given and the less of a voice they have, the better.

Kraichgauer
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17 Aug 2017, 8:51 pm

I made the statement that the killing-by-car was a premeditated act, which has drawn the ire of certain conservative WP members. Considering that the white nationalists had agreed to leave their vehicles several blocks away, so as to avoid the risk of vandalism, it must be asked why this stupid a$$hole instead parked his car near the demonstration. I think this waste of working organs had been fantasizing and fantasizing over and over about showing those leftist race mixers the fury of a true white man by driving his car through their ranks - and so he did.

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