My Argument with big Far Right Youtuber

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That's not what was claimed in the OP. He allegedly claimed that "family breakdown is caused mostly by women". Whilst that might not be a popular opinion, it's certainly a belief that he might reasonably have formed based on data rather than prejudice.



He certainly seemed to imply that "black behaviour" was the prime factor. As he's discussing behaviour rather than e.g. "nature", it's probably safe to assume he's discussing culture - which is not an innate property of race or ethnicity. To label this racist requires an additional step wherein we assume the worst and attribute a justification or rationale which isn't present: e.g. "black behaviour causes black poverty and they're incapable of changing for the better due to their inferior genetics".

Had the underlined text been present, it would be clear-cut.



Convoluted how? By all means disagree with my reasoning, but if you're going to claim "mental gymnastics" you need to back that up. My argument is neither complex nor inventive and can be expressed in a single, simple sentence:

"I do not accept the assertion that the alleged words of Naked Ape demonstrate racism or sexism as there is insufficient data in support of the accusation."



So you actually agree with me, yet maintain that we should just listen and believe?



Whereas I'm not going to assume there's a spade unless you actually brandish one. You can't have your cake and eat it. Either we're supposed to listen and believe or there are shades of grey. Pick one.

I'm also going to call projection on your part regarding the earlier claim of "mental gymnastics" considering the logic of the above. A condensed version of the quoted paragraph might read:

"People are not easily defined as black or white, but this guy is clearly black despite appearing grey."



Nothing he allegedly said comes close to being the equivalent of "black people are thugs".

Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I'm not a huge fan of witch hunts. Nor am I particularly fond of environments where questioning whether or not the assessment of "witch" is a fair one is met with derision and moral outrage. When you take into consideration the fact that I was explicitly labelled "very far right" - a phrase surely intended to suggest that I, too, am a witch - despite my being nothing of the sort, it lends a great deal of weight to the concerns of those members of this board who perceive an "extreme left" bias or trend.

Finally, I'll return to your earlier post:



If popular opinion on this board supports the notion that claims made by self-identified "left wingers" regarding those identified as "right wingers" should be above reproach or question, that demonstrates an ideological bias. Do you stand by your original position or, as seems probable going by your "shades of grey" statement, do you actually accept that such things should always be up for debate?

So it's just coincidence that it's mainly black cultures that are affected? Given the climate created by the regular posters here it's impossible to discuss or come to any reasonable conclusion as any argument is shouted down at the earliest opportunity as being "racist". So the problem remains and noone can look to solve it.

However if I brought up that black people make up a disproportionately large amount of the prison population, what is your response to that going to be? What brash prejudiced criticism are you going to levy against an entire section of people without even seeing a single hint of hypocrisy?

Not sure if you want to discuss the basis of the argument or your opponent's ungentlemanly behaviour.



Said without sense of the tragic irony for a society that supposedly believes in free speech. The sad truth is they would be under similar threat even if they expressed these views in a more polite manner.

I think this is a reason why there is no true absolute freedom of speech where I live here in Turkey. Ever since the beginning of the republic, Islamists and Secularists have been so diametrically opposed that there is non-negligible threat of the state breaking down and violence erupting. Therefore whoever is currently in power tends to repress the side of the population that isn't in power, mostly out of fear.

The common thread is of black cultures that have been historically targeted by racism, not black cultures in general.


That there is a historical reason urban black culture in the US developed maladaptive tendencies... and most of it leads back to historical racism. There are negative feedbacks that cause the problem to persist.

If all you are expecting is a knee-jerk condemnation so you can easily dismiss me, sorry to disappoint. Some militant BLM members would probably attack me for saying black culture has anything to do with it and blame it entirely on unfair targeting of blacks. Open racists will attack me for even suggesting that the problem is more complex than "black people suck". As far as my feelings go, I'll admit have a hell of lot more sympathy for BLM militants than open white racists, but I have to admit that both share a lack of introspection.

Police disproportionately target black people, is one reason.

You can say racist things without actually being a racist.

You can say sexist things without actually being sexist.

Most people, including liberals, tend to hold at least a few problematic opinions that should be examined. For example, I'm not fond of the liberal practice of classifying women and non-whites as "victims." I am not a "victim," nor am I "oppressed." I'm a fully capable individual who charts their own destiny.

Pointing these problematic opinion out shouldn't cause pearl-clutching and panty-bunching.

I'm just saying....

Perhaps the resident "rational centrist" adifferentname will correct your blatant logical fallacies since he takes so much offense at being labelled "right wing".

He hasn't and won't inflict any "beatdown" on me.

All he did was cry about me attacking wh***y because I believe there are causal connections in human culture. He wants to pretend past racism has no effect on black culture. To even talk about reality triggers him, because he makes the logical error of conflating an argument about causality with an argument about moral responsibility. I apply moral responsibility to individuals, not collectives.

Who are you quoting? It certainly can't be me, as I don't consider myself to be a "centrist". As for "rational", you've got me bang to rights.

Whilst we're at it, whatever gives you the impression I'm offended by vague, facile labels? Perhaps you're making the mistake of projecting your own feelings about the term "right wing" onto me. FYI: to the overwhelming majority of sensible people, "right wing" is not synonymous with "morally bankrupt".

Then stop whining for support.



I'm not interested in a petty "he said, she said" spat between the two of you. You and I are communicating now solely because you decided to take an unprovoked backhanded swipe at me. If you can't control your impulse to lash out, you really shouldn't expect any sympathy from any quarter.

No, you object to "right wing" because you want to think of yourself as a special snowflake that is above any kind of label, even if that label happens to apply to your particular type of biases.

I responded because I'm quite frankly disgusted by your blatant lack of empathy and complete unawareness of your own biases. I think anyone with a brain can see your ridiculousness in this thread.