I wish there was a perfect society.

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Oh god that video... watch TJ kirks vid on it.

I have! It's definitely one of his better ones.

I think I've found the perfect city for me. It's called Port Townsend. It's a small art town with lots of free medical and social services, a shelter, is LGBTQ friendly, DSHS, food and clothing banks, and they have a drop in center/coffee shop called The Boiler Room where they feed you for free and you can just chill there all day talking to people, playing guitar, surfing the internet, etc. There's a wait list for subsidized apartments, though. Regular apts cost about $900/month, rooms about $600. Still, not bad compared to Seattle.

Last edited by redrobin62 on 23 Dec 2017, 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Maybe you could get an apartment there.

I went and amended my post. I meant rooms cost $600 and apts around $900. The apts I can't afford, but the rooms I can. The reason I'm nervous about rooms is they come with unforeseen rules which can drive you nuts once you're there. To wit:

1. Some people like their homes to feel like a furnace.
2. Some people like their homes to feel like an ice box.
3. Some people like entertaining guests all hours of the night.
4. Some people don't want you entertaining guests at all.
5. Some people keep pitbulls (land sharks) as pets.
6. Some people want to "fool" around with you or they kick you to the curb.
7. Some people are just slobs.
8. Some people are cleanliness Nazis.
9. Some people want you to do them favors, like drive them to the store, walk their land sharks, etc.
10. Some people complain that your footsteps are too loud or you're up too late at night.

The perfect society cannot exist so long as humans are in charge of it, and I'm not just saying that because there's an orange walrus in the Oval Office who somehow manages to drunk tweet while being sober. No, even an objectively great leader of any country is still incapable of providing us with the unattainable perfection we seek. Objectively, the most perfect perfect would be one in which everyone is happy and is willing to make the sacrifices to achieve and maintain that end. The problem is, no one wants to make sacrifices they don't have to, especially if there's no short-term benefit. That's just not human nature.

Perhaps the ideal word system would be the communism Marx advocated for. One where everyone is equal. And no, contrary to popular belief, he wasn't an advocate for fascism, but for freedom. Unfortunately, we do not live in a world where anything that resembles communism can exist without it being forced on the population. If people didn't choose it, then they are not truly free. Also, in that scenario someone needs to be above the system to enforce it, and if someone is above the system, it is not communism. Alas, few would be willing to give up personal wealth and property without a fight and you could count me in the camp who would refuse to give it all up, so the communism Marx advocated for just isn't realistic, let alone feasible.

For me, personally, I think the ideal system would be halfway between socialism and capitalism. Like, where big corporations aren't oppressing everyone, there are no BS identity politics on either end of the political spectrum, people can enjoy true religious freedom short of killing people (because that should never be allowed no matter one's belief), and freedom of identity and sexual orientation, but also where we can still have stuff and binge on all our favourite media and products. But, what I've outlined is not realistic either. It's a world where we can have our cake but eat it too, but that just isn't possible as far as I know, and I have a BA of sociology.

Every kind of society known to us requires sacrifices, even Capitalism. The difference is we're so used to the sacrifices of capitalism that they either don't feel like sacrifices anymore, or we acknowledge them but can't be bothered to do anything about them. And why should we? It is true that we are slaves to the system, but we're comfortable being slaves to it, so much so that we'd rather stay where we are than try something different where we will likely have to make sacrifices we aren't used to. I do think Marx is right that Capitalism can't be sustained indefinitely, but it has way more longevity than he anticipated and even now there's no sign that it's in immediate trouble. The choice is ours, but shaking up the status quo is a pain, so...meh.

Last edited by Tross on 23 Dec 2017, 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

^ Sigh. Would've been nice if Karl Marx's version of communism was utilized worldwide. Unfortunately, all we saw were genocides in the name of communism from Cambodia, China and the Soviet Union. I also liked Ayn Rand's communist-related writings. but of course, in the hands of a corrupt government, even her ideas would trounce peoples' freedoms and lead to genocide somewhere along the way.

Seen on bumper stickers in Port Townsend:

The place old hippies come to die.
We're all here because we're not all there.
PT - City of Dreams.

Oh, yeah. Sign me up!

Too bad you didn't discover this place sooner.....

AFAIC, my perfect society would never have a need for soup kitchens and general charity.

The perfect society?
maybe one where greed does not exist
prices would be fair, no reason to hold back food to someone in need, very affordable healthcare or
free healthcare, no greed might mean no government corruption.

You're completely delusional.

IMHO the northern European nations [and Canada/Aus/NZ] come the closest to a perfect society, on this earth.

Perfect for people who agree with it.

I want a place (Not even that big, maybe even just a town) That all follow MY opinions, we could just be a remote settlement away from everyone else, not bothering america, to just practice our beliefs in peace.

In a perfect society there would be no need for feminists or men's rights activists or black activists or LGBT activists or any other type of activists.

Some species have largely "perfect" "societies" in some sense. For example, ants and bees form highly cohesive societies (though it should be noted that it has been observed that many bees spend most of their time just standing around). While we can never know the true world of the ant or the bee, and they do have a level of individualism, it seems that they sacrifice the better good of the individual for the better good of their societies. The individual alone does not matter....as far as a human can tell anyway. I suppose there's a chance that some ant somewhere is mourning because her friend got stepped on....we can never really know.

Humans are in a perpetual state of internal conflict. The better good of the species vs. the better good of the individual.

A species that placed a high priority on the better good of the species over the better good of the individual would likely have little diversity, and ironically this could hinder innovation and ultimately be detrimental to the better good of the species in an otherwise dynamic environment. A species that places a high priority on the better good of the individual over the better good of the species, is a species that would have a low degree of cooperation, which can also, can also decrease the odds of survival of the species in some instances.

Humans exist at the intersection of the better good of the species and the better good of the individual and sometimes we serve one and sometimes we serve the other.

My society would be extremely liberal, except for the fact we would have death penalty.