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TheRobotLives
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09 Jan 2020, 5:12 am

What should "the left" do then for poor people?

Job training sounds good?


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Kraichgauer
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09 Jan 2020, 5:24 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
What should "the left" do then for poor people?

Job training sounds good?


Most certainly, yes. But for job training there has to be available jobs that actually make that training worthwhile in the form of wages and benefits. Instead of just putting the burden of getting work on labor, the government should also make sure that businesses stop their usual model of working as few workers for as long as possible, with as little pay that they can get away with, all to "keep competitive" (translation: make owners and stockholders exorbitantly rich). If that means coercion on the part of the government, and denial of business' right to out source jobs across borders, then so be it.


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Persephone29
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09 Jan 2020, 8:01 am

Well, my son is on the spectrum and he details cars for a living. He has insurance. He works for a company that is contracted by the local car dealerships. When it's cold, his hands get dry, crack and bleed. But, he will not miss work, even when he should. I still say it has a tremendous amount to do with how you are raised. If every bang, ding, ow is coddled, you might have a problem. He is obsessive, he puts that seeming defect to use in his ability to excel in what he can do.

Sorry, I just don't buy it guys. If you are a true handicap: in a wheelchair, can't dress yourself, can't read street signs (for safety purposes), have seizures, hear voices, or whatever other unfortunate things come with a disability, I genuinely pray you get the help that you need. But, I just can't be made to believe that anyone short of that can't wash a car. I can be made to believe that you think it's beneath your intellect and therefore you won't wash a car.


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Persephone29
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09 Jan 2020, 8:05 am

Bradleigh wrote:
So you believe that everyone can make $161,000 if they work hard enough? Just tell everyone to work harder and we would all be earning over 100 grand. Better go tell those people who work multiple but are still bellow the poverty line to get their act together, I guess that they can all go looking for the type of job your husband has.

I ain't saying that it can't happen, but it is literally impossible for everyone to get so lucky. There are people in rich families that barely have to try at all, and can have their degrees pretty much paid for along with a job that pays ridiculous amounts.


It has nothing to do with luck. He harassed the company he works for until they gave him a job. He called them everyday, on his lunch break working for considerably less, until they got so sick of hearing from him that they hired him on at base pay. Then, he stuck with it for 35 years.


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Bradleigh
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09 Jan 2020, 8:28 am

Persephone29 wrote:
It has nothing to do with luck. He harassed the company he works for until they gave him a job. He called them everyday, on his lunch break working for considerably less, until they got so sick of hearing from him that they hired him on at base pay. Then, he stuck with it for 35 years.


And if everybody did the same?

Things don't even work like they did 35 years ago. Pretty much everywhere requires putting in applications through the internet, and if they started to get annoyed they will blacklist all your applications. And everywhere requires experience now. I spent a year and a half doing volunteer work in data entry while working as an assistant bookkeeper for a year part time, and still spent the entire last year putting in hundreds of application for office positions with no luck. So spare me if I don't take too kindly advice that I have not been trying hard enough.


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09 Jan 2020, 8:38 am

Persephone29 wrote:

Sorry, I just don't buy it guys. If you are a true handicap


That gets to the heart of the matter as to how those on the political right view the disabled . They're people to be found guilty unless proven innocent ,within a system where the bar proving you're disabled enough to need support has been raised a significant amount .

It becomes increasingly obvious that the political right has wholeheartedly embraced a thoroughly dishonest and quite abusive mindset .

It wasn't always like that . Things changed for the worse with Thatcher and Reagan . In the UK there was Tory paternalism , yes those people believed there were those who were born to lead and those who were not . However they also believed that they had a responsibility towards those lower down the totem pole .

That was swept away , and replaced by a far more nasty and uncivilised conservatism .



Persephone29
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09 Jan 2020, 8:49 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
It has nothing to do with luck. He harassed the company he works for until they gave him a job. He called them everyday, on his lunch break working for considerably less, until they got so sick of hearing from him that they hired him on at base pay. Then, he stuck with it for 35 years.


And if everybody did the same?

Things don't even work like they did 35 years ago. Pretty much everywhere requires putting in applications through the internet, and if they started to get annoyed they will blacklist all your applications. And everywhere requires experience now. I spent a year and a half doing volunteer work in data entry while working as an assistant bookkeeper for a year part time, and still spent the entire last year putting in hundreds of application for office positions with no luck. So spare me if I don't take too kindly advice that I have not been trying hard enough.


Don't take my advice... I'm just telling you why I believe the way I do. If you like relying on your government, go for it.


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Persephone29
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09 Jan 2020, 8:55 am

firemonkey wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:

Sorry, I just don't buy it guys. If you are a true handicap


That gets to the heart of the matter as to how those on the political right view the disabled . They're people to be found guilty unless proven innocent ,within a system where the bar proving you're disabled enough to need support has been raised a significant amount .

It becomes increasingly obvious that the political right has wholeheartedly embraced a thoroughly dishonest and quite abusive mindset .

It wasn't always like that . Things changed for the worse with Thatcher and Reagan . In the UK there was Tory paternalism , yes those people believed there were those who were born to lead and those who were not . However they also believed that they had a responsibility towards those lower down the totem pole .

That was swept away , and replaced by a far more nasty and uncivilised conservatism .


Do you think that 'things' changed because society changed? More people were goldbricking, instead of working? Disability is supposed to be a rarity, not the norm. Everyone has something wrong with them, that shouldn't constitute disability.


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09 Jan 2020, 9:04 am

The right wins because they can make people believe the left are the ones doing all the things the right wants to do. Every time the right wants to do something bad, they successfully convince people that the left is doing it instead.

For example censorship. The right has many people convinced that the left and only the left wants more censorship. This makes it so much easier for the right to get away with censoring things.


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09 Jan 2020, 9:36 am

This "application by Internet" thing has really screwed it up for many people. It certainly screwed it up for me while I was seeking a second job. People can't walk into temp services any more, take the clerical tests, and be sent out the next day like what happened in the 1980s (with me). The only jobs that hire the same day or the next day are messenger positions. Or maybe some retail positions.

These days, it takes at least two weeks for somebody to get a job; whereas, in 1980, one could actually start a job the same day after getting hired. I started the beginning of the next week after I got hired at my present job in 1980.



firemonkey
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09 Jan 2020, 9:46 am

Persephone29 wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:

Sorry, I just don't buy it guys. If you are a true handicap


That gets to the heart of the matter as to how those on the political right view the disabled . They're people to be found guilty unless proven innocent ,within a system where the bar proving you're disabled enough to need support has been raised a significant amount .

It becomes increasingly obvious that the political right has wholeheartedly embraced a thoroughly dishonest and quite abusive mindset .

It wasn't always like that . Things changed for the worse with Thatcher and Reagan . In the UK there was Tory paternalism , yes those people believed there were those who were born to lead and those who were not . However they also believed that they had a responsibility towards those lower down the totem pole .

That was swept away , and replaced by a far more nasty and uncivilised conservatism .


Do you think that 'things' changed because society changed? More people were goldbricking, instead of working? Disability is supposed to be a rarity, not the norm. Everyone has something wrong with them, that shouldn't constitute disability.



I think the belief that there were more people goldbricking is something that those on the political right , due to their political philosophy and/or lack of intellect , have chosen to embrace .

Most people aren't disabled . However those on the political right spout ignorant BS that says disability is becoming the norm . It isn't . Embracing a false belief that it is allows right wing policy makers to think it is morally acceptable for disabled people to get less and less help and support . As in the eyes of those right wing policy makers most of them are just goldbrickers,scroungers etc . That there aren't masses of people goldbricking etc is an inconvenient truth right wing policy makers chose to ignore .



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09 Jan 2020, 9:47 am

The main reason the left looses is because there divided and are always fighting against each other and they are always judging and putting down those within the left wing spectrum that they disagree with.Instead of focusing in on what they do agree on and going from there and accepting with gratitude the support of those who they don't completely agree with.

The right on the other hand works together and accepts all conservative viewpoints even ones they don't like,do you really think Trump likes the religious right,of coarse not he pays hush money to hookers.But he gratefully accepts there support.Do you really think most republicans in America like Trump,of coarse not but they rally around the conservative canidate that is most electable.

A lot of republicans are pro choice but they embrace the religious right because they are conservative,in short the right are not fighting with each other they are banded together to form a strong unit.The left does not do this and this leaves them weak.


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TheRobotLives
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09 Jan 2020, 10:00 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
This "application by Internet" thing has really screwed it up for many people. It certainly screwed it up for me while I was seeking a second job. People can't walk into temp services any more, take the clerical tests, and be sent out the next day like what happened in the 1980s (with me). The only jobs that hire the same day or the next day are messenger positions. Or maybe some retail positions.

These days, it takes at least two weeks for somebody to get a job; whereas, in 1980, one could actually start a job the same day after getting hired. I started the beginning of the next week after I got hired at my present job in 1980.

I was fingerprinted at a police station, criminal and credit background checked, had to order college transcripts be sent to employer, interviewed based on my responses to the application, and put on probation for my first two years.

Total time about eight months.


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Rainbow_Belle
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09 Jan 2020, 10:14 am

Baby Boomers are to blame for the election of right wing governments. Countries like USA, Australia and UK are run by closed minded idiots in government that ensure Baby Boomers house prices continue to increase and that ensures younger generations can never afford them. Governments are trying to ensure young generations pay more for houses, education and health. Baby Boomers got free education, free health, cheap house prices and it was easier getting jobs back then without wasting time and money on education.

Countries with left wing governments are more open minded and far better places to live.
I am celebrating when progressive governments can be elected and implement free health, free education and cheaper housing.



kraftiekortie
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09 Jan 2020, 10:19 am

Here was my process from October 31, 1980:

1. Interviewed. Took typing test. Got hired, starting the next Monday, November 3, 1980. As a Provisional civil
servant.

2. Was investigated substantially afterwards. Even childhood friends were interviewed. Fingerprinted. No drug test,
though.

3. Took civil service test. Passed test.

4. Was "picked up" by my agency almost exactly a year after I was first hired. I was no longer a Provisional. I was a
Probationary Civil Servant.

5. Was put on 6 months' probation within the full-fledged civil service position.

6. Became a full-fledged civil servant with full rights on 5/23/1982.


I wish it were that easy today. Nowadays, either people are "permanently Provisionals," or are not "picked up" from the civil service "lists" after they have passed their civil service tests for at least a couple of years.



TheRobotLives
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09 Jan 2020, 10:26 am

As autistic people, we likely have difficulty with the reference requirement, "List 5 references (not including family members)".

I got my mom to get her friends to say I was good -- even though I don't know them.


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Last edited by TheRobotLives on 09 Jan 2020, 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.