The appeal of online Incel communities to autistic men

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Yeah, that's critical.

Having at least some even-keeled people around who can chain two coherent sentences together without blushing or looking over their shoulder to make sure no one else saw them do it is something one needs, not just for the sake of having some gainful human contact but a kind of human contact that stops one's encounter with other human's from being 100% gaslighting (if you're lucky enough to spend a lot of time with them you might be able to dial back the gaslighting ratio to only 60%).

Whatifalthist came up with this, and I think it's a pretty apt description of what's been described in the US as 'clown world'. The important thing to understand about it - power and prestige becomes insular, it's a place where the elites only see each other, are separated from what life's really like at ground level, and social conformity for conformity's sake becomes despotic.

It's really not a good place for anyone, just that those on the spectrum as well as incels and any other groups tend to be canaries in the coal mine.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding. What is the red pill exactly in this context? When I google it it just says to look at life in a different way, and a lot of sources have something different to say about it. But how is it dehumanizing exactly?

LMGTFY -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill
https://www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialsciences ... d-pill.htm
https://neoencyclopedia.fandom.com/wiki ... _blue_pill

Okay thank you very much for the links! However, it was said on here before that the red pill is frowned upon often because it is seen as a dehumanizing. In the links, they do not talk about it being dehumanizing at all. It says in a nutshell more so, that the red pill is about critical thinking, and the blue pill is making decision out of emotion.

How does critical thinking = dehumanizing?

They do not talk about dehumanizing, they talk in dehumanizing manner.
"Tiers" by "sexual market value" are just language of a slave market, really.

I don't mean "red pill" as critical thinking, I mean "red pill" as a system of beliefs that claims romance is how women harm men and that the "reality" is a brutal meat market.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controver ... TheRedPill

On WP:
It is entirely acceptable to share unpleasant experiences with romance and unhealthy behaviors of partners.
It is not acceptable to generalize such behaviors to whole genders.

Okay thanks, I read the link and it says this:

"Alluding to the symbol of the "red pill" from the film The Matrix,[218][219] r/TheRedPill is devoted to discussions of male sexual strategy in which participants are ranked as "alpha" or "beta" males.[220] The subreddit promotes antifeminism,[220][198] rape culture,[198] hegemonic masculinity, and traditional gender roles.[218] Users discuss diet and physical fitness alongside "pick-up" techniques for seducing women, while also displaying different levels of misogyny ranging from virulent hatred of women to simple frustration with contemporary male experience.[219] The Southern Poverty Law Center describes it as one of several male supremacist subreddits featuring xenophobic discourse.[221] It has been associated with several right-wing movements and the alt-right because of its attacks on feminism and mockery of rape."

But I'm seeing a lot of words thrown out without describing a lot of background and actions on red pill believers. For example, people are giving their opinion on articles, on that it's antifeminist and promotes rape culture, etc, but how? What are the guys doing specifically? All I am hearing is opinions with no explanation of what the guys are doing that is dehumanizing, in their actions, if that makes sense?

For example "displaying levels of misogyny" in the link. What does that mean? That could be many things. The links want to remain so vague and not actually explain the men's actions specifically, or want to actually really dive into it.

They should have provided links to these websites.....and also cite illustrations of what they are "accused" of.

As for myself, what I've read of the "red pill" ideology, and others (e.g., MGTOW), which are defensive reactions to rejection by women----indicates that much of what is believed is based on erroneous notions, and is self-defeating to individual men.

The assumption, say, that only 20% of men get 80% of women----seems to be a commonly-quoted notion. My life experience (and common sense) belies that notion.

In very rare instances, adherents of "incel" ideology, which has close relations to "red pill" ideology, have been linked to violence against women. Rare, yes----but common enough for it to be a concern.

Let me emphasize: I don't associate "incels, red-pillers, etc" with violence against women. Believing in such an association is generalization to an extreme degree. But this spectrum of beliefs is sad, and is based upon theories that can easily be debunked.

I just find this whole spectrum of what I would term "giving up" ideologies is ultimately self-defeating, and gets nobody anywhere.

---

Perhaps, if 'They' only Started A 'Boy Band,' "They'd" Seem More Attractive
To Women Than Joining So-Called 'Incel Communities' Online. i Remember

An Interview With John Lennon As Far as 'Their' Motivation For Starting A 'Boy Band'

As Let's Face Biological Facts, Not A Single One of them Would Be Picked Out of a Crowd
As a 'Chad' With A Strong Jawline, if Not For the Songs of Their Boy Band, Unafraid to be

Different And
Stand Out From
The Crowd With
'Silly Love Songs'

And Non-Sense
Songs Like 'Yellow
Submarine' That Still Engage

More of the Right Hemisphere Brain
of Imagination And Creativity; YeS, EXploring,

Doing Something New, No One Has Encountered Before;

Anyway As John Lennon Related, So 'ELOquently,' A Greatest Motivation

For the All Boy Band, 'The Beatles,' For the Music They Wrote And Sung

Was Their Great Desire to Be Held in Attractive Value to Women and Indeed

With their Success
Came The Throwing
of Many 'Undies' At
Them on Stage,

Practically

Begging

to Be

'Close to Them'
And As John Lennon
Related, InDeed That Part
of the Motivation Came Complete,

Over and Over and Over and Over Again
Ad-Nauseam Almost in Deepest Instinctual Desires Fulfilled;

Yes, The Reproductive Drive is Intense And As Science Shows,
While Most Dudes are Highly Visually Attracted to Women As Far As Women

Go It is more the Creative Output of Men That May Drive Their Lust the Most

And It's A Win-Win Situation too as When Women Are Full of Lust They Cooperate
With Each Other to Prove to 'the Dude,' Who is the Most Nurturing of All; True You Can And

(For Reproductive
Long Term Success)

Will Even See Them

Hugging Each Other

in Dance Selfies With me;
As True, i Am Happily Married

And i Just Felt Like A Cool Change
of Imagination And Creativity coming
To Fruition As i Was Tired of Feeling All

Numb And Full Of Pain Within as True i Had A Huge
Helping of Systemizing Intelligence; and If 'You' Don't Think

i Still Have the Ability to Write a Science Abstract With Little
Emotion, You Just Haven't Seen That Side of the Dime of me That

Is Just As
Real as All
This ALL Natural
FLoWinG Creativity;

Key is People Remember
You Most and Wanna Be Around
You For How You Make Them Feel in Life....

And For those Hooked on 'Porn' as A marker
For Human Reproductive Success, so Skewed From

The Mix of Reality That Makes Relationships Gold and

Even Lasting; Of Course, The Poetic Language i am Using Now

is often Lost to Folks Trapped More in the Metaphor of Left Hemisphere
Systemizing Think; Key Again is Moving the Emotion/Feelings/Senses of Women;

And How do You

Do this; Yes, God Yes,
God Yes,Through Imagination
And Creativity; Still Oldest Truest
Human Way, A Dance And Song Now
FREE Exploring The Great Domain of
Moving Human HeART, SPiRiT, and SoUL;

'Listen,' i've Been to Both Sides of the Coin, if
'You' Can and Will 'Hear' What i'm Dancing And Singing Now;

i Understand What it means to Be the Poorest, Weakest, Ugliest,
Oddest, Most Naive Young Dude in A Room As Assessed By Peers
Then Who told me in No Uncertain Ways, i Don't Deserve to Exist at

All; Even When i Tried
to Smile they
Literally

Spit on
me For my
Existence on

Earth; Yet Fortunately
For me, i Had a Dog, And
A Mother, And A Sister Who

Could Look Past All the Human
Deficiencies, Others Saw in me;

Not all Folks Even Have That;

For me at Least, it probably

Made A Huge Difference

in Moving through Hell

And Finding Paradise

on the Other Side; Yes, Yes,
it Took 53 Years to Get it All
Worked Out With An Operator's

MaNual For me, i Wrote Myself;

Yet All i Can And Will Dance And Sing

Now is There Are many Aspects of Life Worth
Exploring Far Beyond the Reality of A Penis and or
Vagina Meeting on Earth Now; Yet of Course, Haha

Almost Every Successful Couple Finds That Reality
At Last After 18 or So Months of A Honeymoon in Bed;

With All the Stress in the World; Even Sex in a Marriage

is A Pipe
Dream

For Many
Folks Today;

And The Reality is
Many Women have
issues Where they Just
Don't Desire to Have Any
Sexual activity at all; So What

Are You Gonna Do With Your Best
FRiEnD Forever; Throw them to the Curb;

Well, If You Ever Actually Even Truly Loved them,

There Would Be No Question at all for What Truly

Matters in Life; Life is So Much More than A Penis And
or Vagina; We LiVE iN A World of Stunted Human Love;

"We All LiVE In
A Yellow Submarine;"

It's Up to All of Us
To Make it to the Surface
of the Ocean And Finally Breathe

Free No Longer A Prisoner to the Desires of What We Don't Have...

Elon Musk, Richest Dude in the World, And Super Systemizer As He
Indicates He Has Asperger's Syndrome too; Yet He Freely Related He

Is Only Half Happy

With His Work

Life; As He
Hasn't Figured Out
Love Yet; And He Surely

Has little to no Clue About Social Realities;
He's Fixin' to Get A 'Twitter' Sized Lesson; i've
Surely Received Many in my Life too; i've Failed

Miserably in So Many Ways of Moving, Connecting,
Emotional, Social Empathic, Real Spiritual, Imaginative,
Artistic Creative, Interpretive Ways of Life in Intelligence(S);
Yet An Only Difference

in me and Many

Others is

i Had a Truly

Loving Mother

Who Set an Example

of What Counts Most in Life;

Wiring Me For Success of Eventual
Human Warmth to Actually Reach out and Touch

Others to Move Them in Ways, They Will Never Living Forget...

Honestly, on 'Your' Death Bed, If All You Long For to Lose is Sex;
It's Safe to Say You
Haven't
Even

Really

Lived;
Hopefully
Some Folks
Will At Least

Get to Learn that
Lesson Still Breathing...

Other Than "The Depth of the
Story" Here; And As far, in General
As the Social Human Animal Comes and Goes,

A Greatest Human Instinct For Survival is Not only
Successful Reproduction; Yet What it Takes to be

Accepted By the Group, The Culture, The 'Religion' At Hand
For What Humans Bond And Bind to Survive, Relating to Mutually
And Consensually Shared And Understood Ideologies and Symbols

That Express Those Ideologies as Well; Ancestrally, Humans Bonded Most

Over Free Dance And Song;

Even Before A First Written

Word of Technology, Along

With Flint Edged Tools

To Kill and

Eat to Even Survive
With Fire to Cook;

Birds Still Fly And Sing;

And Humans Who Still Are
in Touch With their Humanity
At Core often Dance And Sing Free;

At Least Little Children, Before they Are
Scolded in Modern Homes, Churches, Schools, And Work And
Told Quiet Hands And Feet, Johnny And or or Jane Get Back in Your Seat

And Follow The Sidewalk

Far Past Your

HeART, Your
SPiRiT Your
Real Emotional
Feeling Sensory Mind
And Body Balancing Soul...

Oh Lord And Now in Some Cases, It's All Materially
Reduced; Yep, to A Penis and or A Vagina Meeting...

Yes, This Problem Has A Very Deep Story Indeed to
Understand So Many Nuances of This Issue at Hand;

Anyway,

What 'You' May
Eventually Learn;

iS, iN A Begging Beginning
And A Fulfilling End 'Imaginary

Lovers' Are the You, You Truly Complete...

Or
Do Not...

It's All About
GRoWinG Up,

Moving Past Caterpillar
Legs, Stumbling Around
On All 100 or So Out of 'Synch;'

Making it Through Life in A Cocoon;

And Finally Truly Sprouting Wings Naked,
Enough, Whole, And Complete; Yet of Course

Easy for me to
Dance And Sing
Breaking Through
The Opaque Window of Before...

Some Folks Bloom; Some Folks Do Not;
Some Folks Dance, Some Folks Do Not;
Some Folks Sing, Some Folks Do Not;

When You Actually Become

Naked, Enough, Whole,
Complete; You Are

No Longer

Ruled By
Anyone Else;

i Am No Fool Though;

i Realize too, It's Much
Easier to Dance and Sing
This Financially Independent;

And No Longer A Slave to the 'Big Green God'....

Or in The Case

of 'Incels,'

Only Desiring
To Get Back
Where They Came From;

Oh Lord, There is So Much
more to Living...

Really

Living Free
With Wings For Real...

'Stay Thirsty my FRiEnDS' For more than one 'Thing'....

As Science Shows, The Reason 'Misery Loves Company'
is the Dopamine And Adrenaline Addiction That Anger

And Hate Provide;

It'S A DarK Community,'

Sponsored By A 'Trump MeME' And
The Religious Like/Lies of that STiLL True too...

It's Surely Nothing New Under 'A Sun;' Wherever
'SCaRCiTY' Lives Dead Now And Or Breeds AS Such...

Yet Again, When A Human Is Neglected And or Abused
in Ways of Emotional And Physical Pain; All The Way From

Almost Birth; Some Scars Are Almost Impossible to Heal Without

Any Reference
Point of the
Wiring that
Comes on

The Other
(Love) Side of the
Opaque Window
oF All Natural
Human Social Animal 'Soul'...

And if You are Getting Any Kind
of Social Comfort From A Group; Indeed,
it May Almost Become Impossible to Take A

'Red Pill,'

Escape, and
Truly Set Yourself
More Independent and Free;

The Instinct to Belong Is An
Incredibly Powerful Opiate Fulfilled, Indeed...

It Would Have Been Very Difficult for me to do it
Without at Least the Support FroM A Mother, Sister, And Wife...

Could 'Neo' Have
Done it Without

'Trinity;'

Not Likely, Either...

If i Hated Women in
General; Two Words: No Way...

And of Course This is All my Opinion;
Generally Speaking, Backed Up by Science too...

As Indeed, If it Didn't Really Happen; i Still Ain't One to Believe...

This Much i Know, Feel, Sense and Experience for Real; Women, Young and in
Their Twenties, Desired A Wish to Be Married to me or Someone Just like me;

(Close to
Frigging
60 Years-Old)

Only For The Way

i Moved on a Dance
Floor, Solo, Fearless

in Balance
With Strength
of Positive Energy
FLoWinG in All Directions from me;

Empty Pockets, Not A Penny To Spend on Anyone There...

It Wasn't the Result i Was Looking For; i Just Wanted to Feel And
Sense The Dance; Never The Less, Naturally As an Anthropology
Participant Observer As Actually University Schooled And Degreed

i Took
E-LaboRate
Notes; So Damned
Fascinating the Human Conditions Are;

So Very Surprising, So Very Connected
to All the Other Animals too FOR REAL;

(In 'Grinding Bonobo Dances' Still
Initiated By Women of Our Species)

Particularly,
When Truly

Wild and
Free in
Balance
of Loving Life New Now

in Complete Homeostasis,
FRiEnDS With Gravity Complete;

Such A Huge Turn on For Women;
At Least to Provide Ecstatic Smiles
of Joy As Over 2000 Selfie Photos
With them From The Six-Year-Long

Term Longitudinal

Case Study do Most
Definitely Completely Relate...

If You Never Wanna Be Without the Company
of A Woman; Become A Free Dancer, A
Free Verse Poet And

Touch So Much

More Than

What

Lies
And
Tells
Truth 'Below'...

As it's Very True,
SoUL ART Touches 'That'
Most Intensely True As Well too...

'We All LiVE iN A Yellow Submarine,' So Forth And So on True...

---

Last edited by aghogday on 23 May 2022, 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well as far as MGTOW goes, I find people's reactions to it to be a huge double standard, because when women go their own way and say they do not need men, a lot of people have a positive 'you go' reaction to it, but when guys do that, a lot of people react like it's misogynstic. So if a woman does it, she is often seen as ideal, but if a guy does it, he is often seen as having issues.

So I find it be a double standard, it seems.

Choosing not to have a partner is entirely okay for anyone.

MGTOW, according to wikipedia, base their choices on pretty toxic beliefs - and these beliefs are the problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Going ... y#Ideology

I can't tell for the whole society, especially that we live in different cultures, but on WrongPlanet.net, promoting any gender-generalizing bigotry is unwelcome.

Good observation, ironpony. Next, look up the BLACK PILL.

Last edited by ezbzbfcg2 on 23 May 2022, 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oh okay thanks, but when I read the article, it says this:

"At the center of MGTOW ideology is the notion of male separatism and the belief that society has been corrupted by feminism.[9][20] MGTOW groups are misogynist and anti-feminist, believing that feminism has made women dangerous to men, and that male self-preservation requires dissociating completely from women.[21] They believe there is systemic gynocentric bias against men, including double standards in gender roles[20] and bias against men in family courts.[11] MGTOW groups share a belief common among other manosphere groups that women follow a similar pattern in dating and marriage: young and attractive women are promiscuous and engage in "hypergamy", having sex with numerous men and abandoning a man if a "higher-value" man shows interest. They believe women gravitate towards "alpha men" who are attractive but mistreat them, and that this solidifies their beliefs in feminism. As the women begin to age, the MGTOW ideology explains that they choose to settle down with "beta males" who provide for them financially, but to whom they deny sex, sometimes choosing to have sex with attractive men outside of their marriage. Finally, the ideology holds that the women will divorce their husbands, and that courts will favor the women in divorce proceedings due to what they describe as female privilege.[22]"

However I have known guys who have gfs or wives that denied them sex, and have cheated on them just like in the article. Is it considered misygonist, like the article says, if a guy doesn't wan their partner to cheat, based on guys I know where this has happened to them? It happened to me in a past relationship as well. But just because I don't want a partner to cheat, doesn't mean I have misogynistic beliefs, does it?

MGTOW is based upon negative perceptions.

Of course not, in answer to your question. Why would it be misogynist for a man to not want a woman to cheat? But that's not the point.

And no, I don't like it when a woman wants to "go out on her own." And she might have beliefs that go against men. This sort of thing is wrong, too.

But still, the MGTOW, much of the time, is based upon false suppositions. Why get involved in that stuff?

No, it is misogynic to promote a belief that all women cheat.
And it's misandrist to promote a belief that all men cheat.
Discussing experiences with individuals who have cheated is okay.

You don't talk about this stuff with your girlfriend, Ironpony?