25 Aug 2020, 8:43 pm
Psychiatrists are having a problem with defining or separating internet addiction from video game addiction, social media addiction, email addiction, porn addiction etc etc...
Its too early to talk about banning anything
FleaOfTheChill
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25 Aug 2020, 9:08 pm
yo shut up go jerk off.
I thought you were against that?
I have nothing to contribute to this thread beyond that.
26 Aug 2020, 8:14 am
26 Aug 2020, 8:34 am
yo shut up go jerk off.
Please do not make personal attacks, as they are against WrongPlanet rules.
26 Aug 2020, 1:57 pm
No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both G^D and money.
26 Aug 2020, 2:08 pm
Nothing wrong with it imo. The people involved in creating it (the actors) are adults engaging in sex in a legal way, and doing so voluntarily. The others (directors, photographers, producers) etc., are professionals involved in creating and marketing a product. The product, which they own, they can sell for profit, if they choose to.
By saying these people are addicted to sex...well, this is something legal. It's ok to be addicted to legal things. You may not approve of it, but that doesn't mean you should disallow people from doing it. You might as well also make McDonald's illegal.
"Addiction" has a specific definition as it applies to something habit-forming such that cessation causes serious trauma. The best examples are alcohol -- which can kill you if you withdraw form it, and heroin, which won't kill you, but will produce physical effects such that you wish you were dead...and a variety of other substances. The former is legal, everywhere. So you also think alcohol should be illegal, I take it?
There is nothing inherent about porn that will cause trauma if you cease it. You may be annoyed if you have to stop, because you enjoy it, but...look, this also applies to anything recreational that you enjoy and are in the habit of doing...you can potentially be addicted to *anything* using this loose definition of addiction, and you are making a judgment call on others' lifestyles by accusing them of being addicts in a negative way to something that is, for all practical purposes, neutral.
Otherwise, addiction also means you have little or no control over something. Again...who are you to decide what others are in control of and what they are not? You don't just judge everyone who is engaging in an action, because you see the potential for addiction there. That's an immature attitude to take. Adults have freedom and responsibility, that's what being an adult is about. Kids who get into porn is something else, that's their and their parents' issue. It's legal for a parent to take a kid to an R-rated movie or buy them the tickets, but not for them to do so on their own.
Something like heroin is illegal because it is *highly* addictive and very dangerous. People can easily overdose (and die) due to how the body changes its ability to handle the drug over short periods. Alcohol is legal because most people do not become addicts (though it is possible).
As has been mentioned, people who are addicted to something fitting the looser definition -- this is for them to decide, and to seek help for if they need it. It's not really your business and it's not your place to accuse them of being addicted to something which they enjoy. And then the people on the production and marketing end, like I mentioned, are all doing this consensually and legally.
26 Aug 2020, 5:15 pm
Except that porn only makes people more lustful and perverse. The more porn you watch the less you desire meaningful relationships, and the more you see people as sexual objects. It's bad in numerous other verifiable ways as well.
Economics would disagree with you with something called marginal utility. Also there is something called replacement goods. Usually if you ban one thing people will replace it with something, maybe better, maybe not. Further crime has decreased as porn has been liberalized. Further if you think abortion should be legal and porn not you are being a hypocrite.
26 Aug 2020, 5:21 pm
My point is that even though people will still seek it out, doesn't mean porn should be legal.
If it's legal, workers can unionize and determine their own working conditions.
Addicts can find help.
Criminalising it only takes away workers' ability to organize and addicts ability to get help easily.
Look at abortion: the numbers are steady, but the mortality goes through the roof in places whete it's illegal.
Portugal had a bad drug problem and chose legalization - and things vadtly improved since.
The war on drugs however has been going on for decades and destroyed central America.
Legalisation of things increases consumption, but it's the way to address the damage.
Banning things decreases consumption and ignores the resulting damage. It's just a myopic strategy.
I agree for the most part, but wouldn't legalizing something make the use of it go down? Granted there may be substitute goods (IE going from vanilla to something kinky) but I don't think that is always the case.
26 Aug 2020, 6:12 pm
What a bizarre debate this is.
If we were more open (and less hypocritical) about sex, "porn" as a distinct industry might not be necessary.
I don't agree with banning it, although I do think a lot of porn workers are exploited and a lot of porn is fairly grim, but that would get worse if the whole industry were pushed completely underground.
We're all here as a direct consequence of sex.
How about normalising sex instead of fetishising it? Because it is normal, yet we act like it isn't.
Most of the problems stem from our weird attitude towards sex and sexual morality. It's particularly strange when you consider that violence in films and TV shows seems to be perfectly acceptable, even though it's rare in real life for most of us. We have our priorities all messed up.
26 Aug 2020, 7:43 pm
FWIW I did read up on this a little to get some perspective on how people might be getting "coerced" into doing it...
“You may not know the entire backstory but there is a company that poses as a real and legit modeling agency who targets young barely 18 girls (18-20). They fly them out of state, put them up in a hotel and not until then do these innocent girls find out they will be performing porn. Their interviews are faked. They are told that if they don’t go by the written script in the videos (which will be shown later online) and look like they are happy to do it, then they will be put out and have to find their own way home at their own expense. All of this while several large scary looking men menace over them. We have 19 of these girls on our caseload, all of which told us the same story. These girls are victims.” –DMCA Defender
It sounds like they're willing to do it for the ticket home. It's their fault they didn't get a return ticket as part of the package. No one is threatening them harm here. They're just not being offered money if they don't do something they hadn't realized was part of the deal. They could walk away from these situations, they are being given options. They just need to learn to stand up for themselves a little bit and figure out another way home, and take responsibility for their own mistakes of falling for something like this. These are adults with all the commensurate freedoms and rights bestowed on them, so let's hold them accountable for their own responsibility. If you don't want to do something, you say no and you walk out of there, you call your parents, friends, whoever, and explain the situation then, rather than after you have sex with these people, and then say you didn't feel you had a choice...because you did. That's life, live and learn.
Not all porn is like that, these are exceptions.
Bradleigh
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26 Aug 2020, 8:27 pm
“You may not know the entire backstory but there is a company that poses as a real and legit modeling agency who targets young barely 18 girls (18-20). They fly them out of state, put them up in a hotel and not until then do these innocent girls find out they will be performing porn. Their interviews are faked. They are told that if they don’t go by the written script in the videos (which will be shown later online) and look like they are happy to do it, then they will be put out and have to find their own way home at their own expense. All of this while several large scary looking men menace over them. We have 19 of these girls on our caseload, all of which told us the same story. These girls are victims.” –DMCA Defender
It sounds like they're willing to do it for the ticket home. It's their fault they didn't get a return ticket as part of the package. No one is threatening them harm here. They're just not being offered money if they don't do something they hadn't realized was part of the deal. They could walk away from these situations, they are being given options. They just need to learn to stand up for themselves a little bit and figure out another way home, and take responsibility for their own mistakes of falling for something like this. These are adults with all the commensurate freedoms and rights bestowed on them, so let's hold them accountable for their own responsibility. If you don't want to do something, you say no and you walk out of there, you call your parents, friends, whoever, and explain the situation then, rather than after you have sex with these people, and then say you didn't feel you had a choice...because you did. That's life, live and learn.
Not all porn is like that, these are exceptions.
Unless you signed something that would prevent it, which you should take the time to read, this looks incredibly illegal that they could be super sued, so pulling this stunt would not be something people could pull for long. And if it did not get the right attention it deserved, I would wonder if there could be some aspect of discrimination against people that got involved in sex work, like not taking the women seriously.
This goes into where everything should be legalized and regulated so people can't take advantage of people who have no intention to do so.
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26 Aug 2020, 9:03 pm
Not all porn is like that, these are exceptions.
That's a very mercenary attitude. It's fraud at best, if not coercion.
They don't necessarily have the choice of buying a plane fare home, and will also be deliberately confused and wrong-footed, and put under a lot of pressure to obey. It's like pyramid sales recruitment x10.
26 Aug 2020, 9:12 pm
Not all porn is like that, these are exceptions.
That's a very mercenary attitude. It's fraud at best, if not coercion.
They don't necessarily have the choice of buying a plane fare home, and will also be deliberately confused and wrong-footed, and put under a lot of pressure to obey. It's like pyramid sales recruitment x10.
I'm not saying it's right what these people did on the "modeling agency" side...I'm just saying you do need to be careful (I do feel bad for these girls, don't get me wrong). People conduct scams all the time, and it's always a con. So they get your confidence, and then it's too late. The lesson is, don't fall for it, don't trust people so blindly. Sometimes they're good and they can trick you, that's not right. And sometimes you have to learn the hard way by putting yourself into one of these situations, so you know what to look out for. But my other point is that even if you do get sucked into something...you can usually get out if you try. So I feel they're pleading helplessness once they find out what the "deal" is. They should always have a backup plan. They don't have any money in their pockets to buy plane fare? Ok, that's too bad. So call family or friends. Reach out for help. I get that they felt coerced into it...but take some responsibility here. Did they even try any of those options, or did they just give up and say "oh well, guess I gotta have sex with these guys now and then complain about it later because I need my plane fare"? I understand it's a dicey situation and they're taking advantage, but they did kind of get themselves into the situation by being trusting of this whole modeling gig...
26 Aug 2020, 9:19 pm
I mean, "Beware of strangers" is one of the first social lessons my parents drilled into the heads of my siblings and I while we were still barely old enough to print our own names. "Beware of strangers promising you success and fame" should be a mantra of teen-aged women everywhere -- it ranks right up there with "If it seems too good to be true, it probably IS too good to be true".
Such mantras were not created to make adults look wise, but to warn children about two-legged predators!
Those men are utter slime-balls, and there are many more besides, so what were those women thinking, and what mantras did their parents teach them ... "Believe every word of a stranger who calls you 'pretty'"?
26 Aug 2020, 9:38 pm
“You may not know the entire backstory but there is a company that poses as a real and legit modeling agency who targets young barely 18 girls (18-20). They fly them out of state, put them up in a hotel and not until then do these innocent girls find out they will be performing porn. Their interviews are faked. They are told that if they don’t go by the written script in the videos (which will be shown later online) and look like they are happy to do it, then they will be put out and have to find their own way home at their own expense. All of this while several large scary looking men menace over them. We have 19 of these girls on our caseload, all of which told us the same story. These girls are victims.” –DMCA Defender
It sounds like they're willing to do it for the ticket home. It's their fault they didn't get a return ticket as part of the package. No one is threatening them harm here. They're just not being offered money if they don't do something they hadn't realized was part of the deal. They could walk away from these situations, they are being given options. They just need to learn to stand up for themselves a little bit and figure out another way home, and take responsibility for their own mistakes of falling for something like this. These are adults with all the commensurate freedoms and rights bestowed on them, so let's hold them accountable for their own responsibility. If you don't want to do something, you say no and you walk out of there, you call your parents, friends, whoever, and explain the situation then, rather than after you have sex with these people, and then say you didn't feel you had a choice...because you did. That's life, live and learn.
Not all porn is like that, these are exceptions.
Unless you signed something that would prevent it, which you should take the time to read, this looks incredibly illegal that they could be super sued, so pulling this stunt would not be something people could pull for long. And if it did not get the right attention it deserved, I would wonder if there could be some aspect of discrimination against people that got involved in sex work, like not taking the women seriously.
This goes into where everything should be legalized and regulated so people can't take advantage of people who have no intention to do so.
I think they did sign something. In another quote it says "they never let me read the contract, I was rushed into signing this stupid death warrant". She also said she needed the money at the time. So yeah, money is a factor here. You have to be careful about what you're signing. I know they might be pressuring you, but you have your freedom. They could still back out at the last minute, they just felt pressured. They claim they were "manipulated". This is surprising? Everyone is manipulative when they're trying to get something out of you. The last time I went in to buy a car from the dealership I ended up forking over way more than I had initially wanted to...partly because the sales people were good at roping me in, but I was still the one signing the papers and making the decisions. Look, if I hear about some deal over the phone and I go in person to check it out and it's different from what I thought, heard, or saw from a distance...I am always free to say "oh well, this isn't what I thought, so nevermind, I'm leaving". People need to be held responsible for their own actions, especially when they're adults signing documents, willingly participating in pornographic videos, and getting money for them. It sounds like decent money, too.
https://fightthenewdrug.org/how-teen-gi ... oing-porn/
