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Trump acquitted of impeachment charges.

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cyberdad
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15 Feb 2021, 3:27 am

Pepe wrote:
[
The democrats were initially supporting the movement but changed their tune when it became clear that is was taking support away from them.


What do you mean?



QFT
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15 Feb 2021, 3:30 am

Pepe, I am not sure what is your opinion. On the one hand you praise Trump, as evident by this quote

Pepe wrote:
The tax cut was designed to encourage business back to America, which it did.
Our PM was pissed that an Australian billionaire invested in America as a result of the low tax rate, down to 21%, I believe.

As a result, there were more jobs created in America and a big beneficiary was the coloured demographic.

Jiheisho wrote:
As far as the economy in general, Trumps trade wars have not helped the US economy. Here is an estimate from the Brookings Institute, a conservative think tank (personally, I don't like think tanks, but it gets at the spirit of the thing).

More pain than gain: How the US-China trade war hurt America


I believe Trump focused on not involving America in 'unnecessary' wars, presumably to reduce the financial burden.
Trump was not a warmonger, but a businessman and focused on the areas which would eventually pay dividends such as the growing manufacturing industry.

The Trump administration also made Nato pay their way, so it was reported, and that would have helped the financial situation also. Maybe not significantly, but better than nothing.


Yet on the other hand you are saying you are happy that he is gone, as evident by this quote

Pepe wrote:
Anyway, he is gone now, and good riddance, I say.


So can you elaborate on how these two statements go together?



Pepe
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15 Feb 2021, 4:54 am

QFT wrote:
Pepe, I am not sure what is your opinion. On the one hand you praise Trump, as evident by this quote

Pepe wrote:
The tax cut was designed to encourage business back to America, which it did.
Our PM was pissed that an Australian billionaire invested in America as a result of the low tax rate, down to 21%, I believe.

As a result, there were more jobs created in America and a big beneficiary was the coloured demographic.

Jiheisho wrote:
As far as the economy in general, Trumps trade wars have not helped the US economy. Here is an estimate from the Brookings Institute, a conservative think tank (personally, I don't like think tanks, but it gets at the spirit of the thing).

More pain than gain: How the US-China trade war hurt America


I believe Trump focused on not involving America in 'unnecessary' wars, presumably to reduce the financial burden.
Trump was not a warmonger, but a businessman and focused on the areas which would eventually pay dividends such as the growing manufacturing industry.

The Trump administration also made Nato pay their way, so it was reported, and that would have helped the financial situation also. Maybe not significantly, but better than nothing.


Yet on the other hand you are saying you are happy that he is gone, as evident by this quote

Pepe wrote:
Anyway, he is gone now, and good riddance, I say.


So can you elaborate on how these two statements go together?


Most people have difficulty with the concept of simply being objective.
I jokingly call myself "The Oracle of Truth", but my focus *is* on the Truth, rather than spinning a partisan falsehood.

I find it odd that you, and others, seem to think I am praising Trump when all I am doing is making observations.
Any commentator with integrity would do the same.
Why is this so hard to understand?

Brictoria understands this principle of clinical objectivity/impartiality very well, also.
It seems self-evident to us and we are both confused why others are confused.



cyberdad
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15 Feb 2021, 5:56 am

Pepe wrote:
Most people have difficulty with the concept of simply being objective.
I jokingly call myself "The Oracle of Truth", but my focus *is* on the Truth, rather than spinning a partisan falsehood.

I find it odd that you, and others, seem to think I am praising Trump when all I am doing is making observations.
Any commentator with integrity would do the same.
Why is this so hard to understand?

Brictoria understands this principle of clinical objectivity/impartiality very well, also.
It seems self-evident to us and we are both confused why others are confused.


Impartiality? How much is Brictoria paying you?



ASPartOfMe
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15 Feb 2021, 7:20 am

QFT wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Fear. Fear of the Trump wing of the party putting up a candidate that will beat them in the primary.


If it was "only" about fear, there would be no way for him to beat them in primary.

They think all Trump has to do is endorse the other candidate and criticize them any will lose. Jeff Flake and Bob Corker are not Senators anymore not because they were beaten in a primary but because they took themselves out before a vote was cast because they were convinced being anti-Trump meant losing. Three of the Republican Senators that voted to convict Trump were just reelected meaning they do not have to worry about running for reelection for 5 years.


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magz
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15 Feb 2021, 8:33 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
QFT wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Fear. Fear of the Trump wing of the party putting up a candidate that will beat them in the primary.

If it was "only" about fear, there would be no way for him to beat them in primary.

They think all Trump has to do is endorse the other candidate and criticize them any will lose. Jeff Flake and Bob Corker are not Senators anymore not because they were beaten in a primary but because they took themselves out before a vote was cast because they were convinced being anti-Trump meant losing. Three of the Republican Senators that voted to convict Trump were just reelected meaning they do not have to worry about running for reelection for 5 years.

That suggests very unhealthy dynamics in the party.


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ASPartOfMe
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15 Feb 2021, 1:16 pm

magz wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
QFT wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Fear. Fear of the Trump wing of the party putting up a candidate that will beat them in the primary.

If it was "only" about fear, there would be no way for him to beat them in primary.

They think all Trump has to do is endorse the other candidate and criticize them any will lose. Jeff Flake and Bob Corker are not Senators anymore not because they were beaten in a primary but because they took themselves out before a vote was cast because they were convinced being anti-Trump meant losing. Three of the Republican Senators that voted to convict Trump were just reelected meaning they do not have to worry about running for reelection for 5 years.

That suggests very unhealthy dynamics in the party.

To me it more than suggests, it is proof that America’s future as a democratic republic is quite questionable. It is not only Republicans the Democrats have shown to a somewhat lesser degree fear of their illiberal “woke” base.


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QFT
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15 Feb 2021, 1:23 pm

Pepe wrote:
QFT wrote:
Pepe, I am not sure what is your opinion. On the one hand you praise Trump, as evident by this quote

Pepe wrote:
The tax cut was designed to encourage business back to America, which it did.
Our PM was pissed that an Australian billionaire invested in America as a result of the low tax rate, down to 21%, I believe.

As a result, there were more jobs created in America and a big beneficiary was the coloured demographic.

Jiheisho wrote:
As far as the economy in general, Trumps trade wars have not helped the US economy. Here is an estimate from the Brookings Institute, a conservative think tank (personally, I don't like think tanks, but it gets at the spirit of the thing).

More pain than gain: How the US-China trade war hurt America


I believe Trump focused on not involving America in 'unnecessary' wars, presumably to reduce the financial burden.
Trump was not a warmonger, but a businessman and focused on the areas which would eventually pay dividends such as the growing manufacturing industry.

The Trump administration also made Nato pay their way, so it was reported, and that would have helped the financial situation also. Maybe not significantly, but better than nothing.


Yet on the other hand you are saying you are happy that he is gone, as evident by this quote

Pepe wrote:
Anyway, he is gone now, and good riddance, I say.


So can you elaborate on how these two statements go together?


Most people have difficulty with the concept of simply being objective.
I jokingly call myself "The Oracle of Truth", but my focus *is* on the Truth, rather than spinning a partisan falsehood.

I find it odd that you, and others, seem to think I am praising Trump when all I am doing is making observations.
Any commentator with integrity would do the same.
Why is this so hard to understand?

Brictoria understands this principle of clinical objectivity/impartiality very well, also.
It seems self-evident to us and we are both confused why others are confused.


"Good riddance" is not "stating the fact". So what was it that prompted you to say that?



QFT
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15 Feb 2021, 1:29 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
QFT wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Fear. Fear of the Trump wing of the party putting up a candidate that will beat them in the primary.


If it was "only" about fear, there would be no way for him to beat them in primary.

They think all Trump has to do is endorse the other candidate and criticize them any will lose. Jeff Flake and Bob Corker are not Senators anymore not because they were beaten in a primary but because they took themselves out before a vote was cast because they were convinced being anti-Trump meant losing. Three of the Republican Senators that voted to convict Trump were just reelected meaning they do not have to worry about running for reelection for 5 years.


Well, Trump's word won't have such a great effect if he didn't appeal to them in "some" way.

Saying its just fear is circular. Why do they listen to him? Because of fear. Why are they afraid? Because others will listen to him. Why do other listen to him? Also because of fear, etc. So you can replace Trump with my next door neighbor and say my next door neighbor won't endorse the candidates that wouldn't listen to him so everyone will start listening to my next door neighbor out of fear. That just doesn't cut it.



magz
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15 Feb 2021, 1:32 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
magz wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
QFT wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Fear. Fear of the Trump wing of the party putting up a candidate that will beat them in the primary.

If it was "only" about fear, there would be no way for him to beat them in primary.

They think all Trump has to do is endorse the other candidate and criticize them any will lose. Jeff Flake and Bob Corker are not Senators anymore not because they were beaten in a primary but because they took themselves out before a vote was cast because they were convinced being anti-Trump meant losing. Three of the Republican Senators that voted to convict Trump were just reelected meaning they do not have to worry about running for reelection for 5 years.

That suggests very unhealthy dynamics in the party.

To me it more than suggests, it is proof that America’s future as a democratic republic is quite questionable.
That system started almost 240 years ago as a complete experiment... it went surprisingly well if we look from this point of view.
ASPartOfMe wrote:
It is not only Republicans the Democrats have shown to a somewhat lesser degree fear of their illiberal “woke” base.
I'm not sure if attributing all the problems to "the woke" (or any other single faction) is the right approach.
A phenomenon of radicalization is dangerous - on every side of the political arena. I know you know it, being a "politically orphaned" Moderate.


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ASPartOfMe
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16 Feb 2021, 4:41 am

magz wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
magz wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
QFT wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Fear. Fear of the Trump wing of the party putting up a candidate that will beat them in the primary.

If it was "only" about fear, there would be no way for him to beat them in primary.

They think all Trump has to do is endorse the other candidate and criticize them any will lose. Jeff Flake and Bob Corker are not Senators anymore not because they were beaten in a primary but because they took themselves out before a vote was cast because they were convinced being anti-Trump meant losing. Three of the Republican Senators that voted to convict Trump were just reelected meaning they do not have to worry about running for reelection for 5 years.

That suggests very unhealthy dynamics in the party.

To me it more than suggests, it is proof that America’s future as a democratic republic is quite questionable.
That system started almost 240 years ago as a complete experiment... it went surprisingly well if we look from this point of view.
ASPartOfMe wrote:
It is not only Republicans the Democrats have shown to a somewhat lesser degree fear of their illiberal “woke” base.
I'm not sure if attributing all the problems to "the woke" (or any other single faction) is the right approach.
A phenomenon of radicalization is dangerous - on every side of the political arena. I know you know it, being a "politically orphaned" Moderate.

These remarks are not attributing all the problems to any one faction but criticizing politicians for giving into fear.


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magz
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16 Feb 2021, 4:46 am

You mean, currently the Dems are less giving to their radical wing than the Reps?


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ASPartOfMe
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16 Feb 2021, 4:59 am

magz wrote:
You mean, currently the Dems are less giving to their radical wing than the Reps?

Yes, but they are still giving in more than I would prefer.


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magz
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16 Feb 2021, 6:03 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
magz wrote:
You mean, currently the Dems are less giving to their radical wing than the Reps?

Yes, but they are still giving in more than I would prefer.

Radicalization is an ominous phenomenon, indeed.


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17 Feb 2021, 6:06 pm

FlaminPika wrote:
Trump has been acquitted of his impeachment charges regarding the incitement of an insurrection. The senate vote went to 57-43, which means 7 republican senators went along with conviction along with 50 democrats. Of course this wasn't enough for the majority needed to convict Trump as there wasn't enough GOP support. What are your thoughts?


No surprise here.

When you're born rich, you can do absolutely anything and never be held accountable for it.