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Ragtime
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12 Aug 2007, 8:13 pm

Sopho wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Sopho wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Sopho wrote:

So if, when I was in denial about my sexuality, I had gone and had sex with a man to try and 'make myself straight' or prove to myself that I was straight, that in itself would have actually mean that I was straight?

If you wanted him sexually, it would at least make you bi. And there's no "denial" phase; I am what I want to be -- I don't live in a class system.

But that's just it - I wouldn't have wanted him sexually, I have never been sexually attracted to a man in my life.

You wouldn't voluntarily screw a man if you didn't want him sexually, at least enough to get wet and open. The fact you'd even be there to do him shows you have some actual interest in going through with the entire physical act, versus just thinking things over to yourself, or aloud to friends. Having sex isn't an "oh well" action for most women.

Logically, you're not going to be able to be in denial about a 100% repulsion / 0% attraction, unless you're insane.

Sopho wrote:

And there is a denial phase for a lot of people. Maybe you've never been in denial, but that's because you're straight.

That idea is a self-deception. You can't not know what you feel. You CAN however, not know what you're GOING TO FEEL. But in the moment, you're aware of present feelings. (Hint: That's why they're called "feelings", because you "feel" them.)

1. Denial can drive people to a lot of things. I very nearly had a boyfriend

OH, NOES!! !

Sopho wrote:

2. There are ways of fooling yourself into thinking you're not actually gay ie. it's just a phase, I'll grow out of it, I'm not actually attracted to them - I'm just confused. I knew in my head that I only liked girls, but I wouldn't tell myself it was true. Maybe I am crazy after all then, but people can definately be in denial about their sexuality, same as I was with being transgendered, I tried to be girly or whatever, even though none of what I did felt natural to me.

Well, my religion considers a person's intent above an outcome. For instance, I could have surrendered long ago to my lifelong urge to screw girls who wanted me, and could have said, "This is just who I am. Why fight it?" But since my Bible says sex is absolutely wrong outside of marriage, I reined myself in, and still do. I've never had sex with anyone but my wife, and have turned down plenty of offers for casual sex. Am I denying who I am, by demonstrating that I have control over my penis? No, because who I am IS a man who has control over his penis.

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greenblue
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12 Aug 2007, 8:13 pm

Hadron wrote:

Sopho wrote:

Hadron wrote:

Sopho wrote:

Hadron wrote:

Sopho wrote:

Hadron wrote:

This thread, i would say was one of those games. Among others she seems to play with her life.

Such as?

Transgenderism, attention seeking, and so on.

How is being transgendered a game?
I'm not attention-seeking. And I certainly don't do it in real life, I haven't left the house for weeks except to go to the doctor.

You mean you are locked up like that all the time, out of choice? Do you actually not know anyone outside your house IRL?

I have incapacitating social anxiety and topographical disorientation which makes it difficult to get public transport. I know no one outside of my family and won't do until I go back to uni in September.
And again, how it me being transgendered a game? Do you even know anything about it?

I see, so you cant go out at all then? Surely you can take a GPS device out with you so you dont get lost. As for the anxiety, it cant be totally crippling otherwise you wouldnt be at a uni. Do you have actually no friends at all in your uni?
As for it being a game, it often is, most people with transgender issues have lots of other things as well on average. I do know what it is.

You think you know that
I thought I knew about it before, and probably in a similar fashion as you do now, and I admit I was wrong about it, until I found a little information about the subject, so I admit I was very ignorant about that, and I am still a little ignorant when it comes to transgendered people, I don't have enough information and knowledge about that, so I can't really speak for it, and I realise that because of that ignorance I can offend people, even hurt their feelings, so I really would like to change that and learn more about it.

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Hadron
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12 Aug 2007, 8:14 pm

Sopho wrote:

Hadron wrote:

Well it was the psychologist that diagnosed me who said it was 'incapacitating' and it is possible to go to a university if you have anxiety, I took Prozac for a while for it and saw a counselor. My tutors are all aware of my AS and anxiety and I don't have to speak to anyone if I don't want to. I get dropped off at the building, go into my lectures/seminars, maybe go to the library after, and then get picked up and go home. I have no friends. I don't want any though really.
Being transgendered is not a game. I still don't understand exactly HOW you think it is.

Psychologists do tend to overstate stuff, if it was totally incapcitating you would not be able to leave your bed. As for having no friends, what are you going to do when you have no network and more or less no way to get a career. You at least need a good collection of acquantances to step into the game of life. You see now what I mean about gay rights being least of your worries right?
As for transgenderism, you do not wake up in the morning and see yourself as a bloke correct?

Ragtime
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12 Aug 2007, 8:17 pm

calandale wrote:

experiencing the beauty
of love probably converted some men to gay.

^^^ Attn: Soph

calandale wrote:

That, along with molestation - but we'll leave that
issue alone.

Might as well. SOMEONE needs to be left alone.

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Last edited by Ragtime on 12 Aug 2007, 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ragtime
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12 Aug 2007, 8:21 pm

greenblue wrote:

It is believed by them that Jesus never married, therefore never had sex, and they follow that example based on that, I also think they may interpret Paul writings about never getting married, and they follow that life according to them.

It's Biblically wrong to prevent priests, or nuns, from marrying. Paul himself wrote that.
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving" (1 Tim 4:1-4).

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greenblue
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12 Aug 2007, 8:24 pm

calandale wrote:

That, along with molestation - but we'll leave that
issue alone.

I heard things about that which I believe it is a misconception, I'll leave it at that.

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Ragtime
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12 Aug 2007, 8:25 pm

Sopho wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Sopho wrote:

Hadron wrote:

1. So why not post in the homosexuality thread

How would that be possible? I wanted to make a poll to see who thought what. Holy sh**, are you stupid or something? That's exactly what this thread was about. Ragtime didn't believe that most people would agree with me, I started this to see whether they would or not.

And I already told you that of course the way you loaded the question, they'd vote agreeing with you, and that therefore I couldn't recognize the results as indicative.

How else would I word it?
I wanted to know if people thought sexuality was about who you're attracted to o who you have sex with. And that's how I worded it. What would you have preferred?

"Is someone straight if they only want the opposite sex?"

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=41090

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Ragtime
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12 Aug 2007, 8:29 pm

greenblue wrote:

calandale wrote:

That, along with molestation - but we'll leave that
issue alone.

I heard things about that which I believe it is a misconception, I'll leave it at that.

OMGosh!

You're not protecting child molesters, are you? Child molesting isn't a Sacrament, you know.

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Sedaka
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12 Aug 2007, 8:41 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Well, my religion considers a person's intent above an outcome. For instance, I could have surrendered long ago to my lifelong urge to screw girls who wanted me, and could have said, "This is just who I am. Why fight it?" But since my Bible says sex is absolutely wrong outside of marriage, I reined myself in, and still do. I've never had sex with anyone but my wife, and have turned down plenty of offers for casual sex. Am I denying who I am, by demonstrating that I have control over my penis? No, because who I am IS a man who has control over his penis.

/sigh

you used this comparison in the homosexuality thread... or something close

the difference is that you stated your HOMO attraction was forced.... whereas your attraction to these girls has been "lifelong" as you're now putting it

but oh... wait... you avoided answering that question for so long that by the time you addressed it... you forgot what the direct comparison was and tried to pass it off as me being stupid and not understanding that you weren't ACUTALLY comparing the two things :roll:

this is the second time you're trying to make this case and it's still not gonna fly

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greenblue
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12 Aug 2007, 8:44 pm

Ragtime wrote:

greenblue wrote:

calandale wrote:

That, along with molestation - but we'll leave that
issue alone.

I heard things about that which I believe it is a misconception, I'll leave it at that.

OMGosh!

You're not protecting child molesters, are you? Child molesting isn't a Sacrament, you know.

lol, No, I'm not, I guess I should explain.

I heard some people blaming the vote of chastity priests make and they claim that is what drives them to be gay or pedophiles, which I believe is not true at all.

I believe priests who molest children they choose that because they want to get close to them since the beginning, without no one suspecting of them, that might make it easier for them to do that, it is not a result of choosing a life without sex, they were like that before joining priesthood and they become one with the only reason to get close to kids. Of course not all priests are like that.

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Last edited by greenblue on 12 Aug 2007, 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sedaka
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12 Aug 2007, 8:47 pm

greenblue wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

greenblue wrote:

calandale wrote:

That, along with molestation - but we'll leave that
issue alone.

I heard things about that which I believe it is a misconception, I'll leave it at that.

OMGosh!

You're not protecting child molesters, are you? Child molesting isn't a Sacrament, you know.

lol, No, I'm not, I guess I should explain.
I heard some people blaming the vote of chastity priests make and they claim that is what drives them to be gay or pedophiles, which I believe is not true at all.

I believe priests who molest children they choose that because they want to get close to them since the beginning, without no one suspecting of them, that might make it easier for them to do that, it is not a result of choosing a life without sex, they were like that before joining priesthood. Of course not all priests are like that.

and it's not part of the doctorine of catholocism, as Ragtime would have you believe...

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calandale
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12 Aug 2007, 8:51 pm

Ragtime wrote:

calandale wrote:

experiencing the beauty
of love probably converted some men to gay.

^^^ Attn: Soph
.

This does nothing for your point.
I've made it pretty clear that I believe
SOME people do have a choice.

I think that I'm one of them.

I trust those who don't feel they could
make a decision.

calandale
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12 Aug 2007, 8:56 pm

greenblue wrote:

calandale wrote:

That, along with molestation - but we'll leave that
issue alone.

I heard things about that which I believe it is a misconception, I'll leave it at that.

You don't think that those who are molested
show a higher rate of being molesters?

Sedaka
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12 Aug 2007, 9:00 pm

calandale wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

calandale wrote:

experiencing the beauty
of love probably converted some men to gay.

^^^ Attn: Soph
.

This does nothing for your point.
I've made it pretty clear that I believe
SOME people do have a choice.

I think that I'm one of them.

I trust those who don't feel they could
make a decision.

hence the spectrum.... and even if rag (who's clearly straight) had conducted a valid experiment to test the two-way interaction....

can only account for his own homo tendancies... and plausible bi-ness

for all my jest... i dont even consider myself bi... despite all the "common knowledge" jests about all women being somewhat bi

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calandale
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12 Aug 2007, 9:06 pm

Sedaka wrote:

for all my jest... i dont even consider myself bi...i

And all at once, you crush my hopes.

greenblue
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12 Aug 2007, 9:11 pm

calandale wrote:

greenblue wrote:

calandale wrote:

That, along with molestation - but we'll leave that
issue alone.

I heard things about that which I believe it is a misconception, I'll leave it at that.

You don't think that those who are molested
show a higher rate of being molesters?

I don't know about rates, but I know some are, and some never were molested, either way, I don't think it is because of choosing a sexless lifestyle because of their religion beliefs as few people think. I don't really know if Ragtime actually believes that, probably he could claim homosexuality can be a result from it.

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