You may be a Communist if . . .

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Nades
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19 Jul 2023, 10:34 am

Fnord wrote:

Nades wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Nades wrote:

I thought this thread was about communism and not high tax capitalism.

Since they cannot discredit the general theme in the original post, they introduce their own favorite "whipping boy" themes to beat up and shoot down.

Common tactic for PP&R.

Well it seemed pretty clear that you meant communism, even the title is pretty obvious.

Anyway I have my own little list of traits I noticed with communists living in capitalist countries.

They are universally jealous. This is obvious with how they speak about other people's money.

They are usually lazy and never mention how they themselves will contribute to a communist society, all they say is just how to redistribute other people's wealth and property.

They usually have low end jobs or are unemployed.

They are universally entitled, again all they want is the wealth of others and nothing more.

They often seem prepositioned to violence, bullying and criminality. In a capitalist country turning communist, it'll require tearing peoples investments and property off them which will obviously require serious force. It takes an odious individual to do that and *personally*, someone who is OK with human right breaches like that will probably be OK with committing fraud, extortion and exploiting vulnerable people both financially and physically. I wouldn't leave a communist anywhere near my grandmother...........they would no doubt help themselves to her Visa card after beating her senseless.

Indeed, in communist countries of the past and present this was/is the norm and is required to stem the discontent of the population.

I cannot disagree with any of this.

Putting it simply, there is no such thing as a friendly individual who wants a capitalist state to go communist. Doing so requires human rights breeches similar to Nazism or Stalinism where wealth was torn off people with extreme violence.

A tiger never changes its stripes. Anyone who is OK with "this house belongs to me now....... understand?" While holding a gun to your head, or at least a lunch mob is a person who wouldn't think twice of making your friends of family "disappear" including kids and the elderly.

aghogday
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19 Jul 2023, 10:44 am

Strawman

From First Definition on Google:

An intentionally misrepresented proposition that is
set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
"her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"

Indeed, the Op Is a Classic Example of a Strawman Presenting Basically An Authoritarian And Yes
Totalitarian Dictatorship That Does Reflect in Many Ways How the Economic Philosophy of Communism

Is Carried Out in 'The Real World' As Humans Are Not Evolved Well for Instant Gratification or Utopias;

However, The Descriptions Provided in the Op Are NOT What is Described in the Economics of Communism;

They Better Reflect A Parody of What Communism Has Become in Real Life As It Just Won't Work As Described
in the Theory With Large Heterogenous Groups of Human Beings As Human Beings Aren't Really Evolved Well

to Co-Exist Peacefully With More than About 150 Well Acquainted Folks, Unless There is A Government With
Strict Rules for Law and Order; Unless You Want the Kind of Anarchy one Sees Without Law and Order in a

'Trump World'

True, The Op Works Similar to If i Created an Op With:

You Might Be A Christian, if You Believe Less Fortunate Folks Who Aren't As Genetically
And Environmentally Privileged as You Should Pull Up Their Own Bootstraps
And Don't Deserve Any Help From More Privileged People This Way.

You Might Be A Christian, If You Marginalize the Least Among You
And Tell Them in So Many Ways They Don't Deserve to Exist as They Naturally Are.

You Might Be A Christian, If You Espouse the Philosophy of Marjorie Taylor Green and Most
Of Her Republican Leader Evangelistic Christian Cohorts That A Society that Lifts Those Up

Who are Less Fortunate is Bad And One That Doesn't Help Others is Good; Jesus F in Christ,

God Yes, True and if You Do That And Treat the Least, Any Less than Jesus According to the
Story at Least, By the End of Matthew You Will Surely Face the Prospect of Metaphorically

Getting Turned into
Goats From Sheep

And Burned forever for
Being Callous Against Those

You Believe Are Less than You....

It's True, Some Christians Seem
to Be 'Worthless' ThiS WaY As Some
Communists Practice an Economic System that
is Not Very Reflective of the Original Philosophy of that Economic System.

Listen Up, A Free Market With A Social Welfare State That Adequately Provides
Both Opportunity and Safety Nets for the Populace As Whole is the Best Economy
Humans Have Developed So Far to Date Yet Without the Social Welfare State that
Goes Along with the Free Market, It Just Won't Work Well As There Are People Who Need Help;

And There are Invisible Disabilities That Most Folks Have No Clue that even Exist by First View.

Many Folks With Invisible Disabilities This Way Don't Even Have A Clue How to Get Help or Any
Help From Folks Who Truly Care About them to Help Them Get the Help They Need; They Fall Through

the Cracks

Unless there
are Well Developed
Safety Nets for Social Welfare
Like the Ones We See Currently in Some Nordic Countries.

Yet It's More Difficult to Do this in Larger Heterogeneous Societies...

Yet That Doesn't Mean We Can't Keep Doing Our Best to Improve the Societies
Like the United States That Fail In Many Ways in Social Welfare to those who Need a Safety Net;

Including Those Who Are Judged By folks Who Don't Have the Credentials to Determine if they Need Help or Not...

Too Many Arm Chair
Psychologists; Not Enough

'Army' on the Ground to Actually Help...

When Teenage Girls Have the Highest Rates
of Depression and Suicidal Ideation Who Once
Had the Lowest Level Per Measure of Science;

It Proves The the System At Whole is Not working
Much Better Than Communism in Other Countries.

Those Are the Folks Who Will Make or Break the Future
By The Emotional Stability to Raise Children in the Future.

If We Don't take care of the Least Among us We All Fall Down Eventually and Crumble...

Jesus F in Christ, Even in Chimp Societies, Leaders Are Chosen for Their Empathy and
Compassion For the Least and the Most as the Greatest Viable Leaders; True, the

Ones Who Don't Cooperate And Care Are Generally Not Well Received in a Chimp Society Either...

At Least Try to Do Chimp...

And Even Do Bonobo Better...

One of the Best Parts of Global Capitalism
in a Free Market is It Does Lift the Less Fortunate
Socio-Economically Privileged Folks Up; And Hey,

If You Can Get a 200 Dollar HDTV From China And
Without China You'll Pay More; And China Gets Stuff
From You They Can't Get There; Lord Knows, You Are

(Yet Don't Totally Rape the Environment too God Damned Much;
God Yes, it is the Only Well Evolved Home We Will Ever Have)

Less Likely

to Blow Each Other Up.

There Are Many Advantages of

A Free Market With A Social Welfare State;

There Are Many Areas of Improvement
That will Never Be Exhausted too...

It's A Global Potluck;

Crude in Many Ways;

Yet Jesus F in Christ, Better Than Anarchy
And Blowing Everyone Up to Smithereens...

Other than that Look at The Rest of Nature;
Existence is Challenge....

There are No Heavens
Without Hells; There
Are No Hells Without Heavens;

No Yin without Yang, etc... etc... etc...

In Other Words Baby, There is no only Black and White;

And There Are no Two 'Twitter Sized Sentences' That Will Cover the Whole Topic...
Life is Deeper Than the Ocean And Bluer For Many Folks That Others Cannot See...

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Nades
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20 Jul 2023, 2:27 am

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Because nothing says self-serving like thinking higher tax revenues would allow greater investment into social programs, infrastructure, education at the like.

Tell us more about your misguided assumptions. :roll:

Well the modern education system is evil, but other than that I agree.

Fnord wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Nades wrote:

Every time someone who supports communism talk about the benefits of it, they always give off huge vibes of jealousy and are obsessed with the money and property of others. It's universal among them.

Sounds like projection. Of course they're all jealous, they must be, you've decided that's their motive.

There does seem to be a modicum of jealousy when someone expresses more concern for someone else's wealth than for their own financial situation. It is almost as if the complainers do not want anyone to question the poor decisions the complainers made that led them to being under-employed wage-earners.

Complaining about the riches possessed by the "One-Percenters" smacks of jealousy. I mean, the only other person who would have any legitimate concern over about someone else's wealth is the taxman.

Having 0 jealousy would be denial of self/inhuman behavoir. Of course poor people are jealous of the rich, I just don't see jealousy as the only motivation or even the primary motivation of communists. I think the primary motivation is when they see rich people who are incompetent and don't do anything useful with their money, meanwhile the majority of the planet is a dystopia of poverty and there are starving people. I don't think communists get mad at rich philanthropists the way they get mad at rich, incompetent, greedy and unethical corporations that continually release subpar crap. "Why should he get all the money when I could run the business better" is the sentiment I think.

But it feels like you are arguing just to argue so I don't expect you to agree.

Nades wrote:

mrpieceofwork wrote:

I should have known. Wow. All lies. re: the OP post.

State ownership of pretty much everything implies some use of force and authoritarianism. The state owning literally everything including what was once your possessions (assuming it was a capitalist state switching to communism) will have to require extreme force to "redistribute" said private property.

It's hard enough prevent people owning property or wealth, yet alone actually stealing it once it's owned. Obviously, those who idolise communism in a capitalist state are naturally inclined to dishonesty and theft to simply realise their dream of communism.....in fact, it's a requirement once property is already under private ownership so obviously that adds a dishonesty element to communists.

They already have that kind of redistribution enforcement, its called taxes. Like I said, old communism is obsolete, what I'm talking about is new communism. UBI absolutely should be enforced by the state if a corporation is in the profits and a robot workforce. Should profitable corporations who have a robot workforce not pay UBI?

And communism is a stateless society. "State owns everything" is a non-sequitor. In capatalist "democracies" even if you own a house, its not truly yours, if the state doesn't like something you have to obey, for example maybe there are antenna rules, or lawn rules, or driveway rules, its not truly your own property, and you have to pay taxes on the property.

Quote:

>Communists are lazy and Marx was lazy.
>Communists hate lazy people, they force people to work.

Pick one.

Communism is the state ownership of all property and business though. What you are describing isn't communism.

A communist living in capitalist nation is a jealous, entitled person who almost always wants to use extortion and crime to transfer private wealth over to the state.

There is no such thing as someone politely handing their entire net worth over to the state when requested. It'll always take considerable force which Communists have a long history of using.

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20 Jul 2023, 3:21 am

Nades wrote:

A tiger never changes its stripes. Anyone who is OK with "this house belongs to me now....... understand?" While holding a gun to your head, or at least a lunch mob is a person who wouldn't think twice of making your friends of family "disappear" including kids and the elderly.

If you own multiple homes which mostly remain unoccupied while many are homeless, I have no issue with your extra homes being taken away, even if it requires force to accomplish.

But muh property rights is a sh***y excuse.

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funeralxempire
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20 Jul 2023, 3:23 am

Nades wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Fnord wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Nades wrote:

Every time someone who supports communism talk about the benefits of it, they always give off huge vibes of jealousy and are obsessed with the money and property of others. It's universal among them.

Sounds like projection. Of course they're all jealous, they must be, you've decided that's their motive.

I thought this thread was about communism and not high tax capitalism.

Where does the one end and the other begin? In practice economic systems always mix.

Nades
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20 Jul 2023, 4:10 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Nades wrote:

This is the preposition to criminality that I'm on about though. I notice this often, people who are keen on communism in a capitalist state are very keen to use violence to deprive others of property and it makes me wonder, if someone doesn't mind beating up another and taking a 500k house, what other crimes are they willing to commit?

Why not just build another house to replace it or does that invoke one of the observations I mentioned earlier about communists never having an interest in contributing.....only depriving?

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20 Jul 2023, 4:42 am

Nades wrote:

Why not just build another house to replace it or does that invoke one of the observations I mentioned earlier about communists never having an interest in contributing.....only depriving?

Why not both? :roll:

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20 Jul 2023, 4:44 am

the ableists are making their presence known by their use of strawman statements insisting that all communists are violently larcenous thugs. this communist begs to differ, and wants only a more humane capitalism, realizing that not enough human evolvement is at hand to enable a true communist society to thrive. is it too much of a nuance to insist that it is not a digital argument here, IOW is it too much to ask that capitalism needs to preserve itself by doing right by everybody and not just for the lucky and strong?

Last edited by auntblabby on 20 Jul 2023, 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nades
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20 Jul 2023, 4:46 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Nades wrote:

Why not just build another house to replace it or does that invoke one of the observations I mentioned earlier about communists never having an interest in contributing.....only depriving?

Why not both? :roll:

So even if the houses are replaced, you still want to steal the prior ones with force why? Doesn't it strike you as criminal and totalitarian to do that? Wouldn't others rightly see such an individual as a danger?

Beating people up to steal large amounts of personal property ticks off jealousy, entitlement and criminality from the list I posted earlier of what a typical communist is like. It could be argued it also ticks of laziness and low income/unemployment because to indulge in such behaviour is a clear sign of that one doesn't want to work towards legitimately obtaining what one is forcefully stealing off others.

I should do a communist bingo card.

Last edited by Nades on 20 Jul 2023, 7:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

Nades
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20 Jul 2023, 5:07 am

auntblabby wrote:

Humane capitalism is not communism though. In sure you respect property rights for example?

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20 Jul 2023, 5:12 am

Nades wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Humane capitalism is not communism though. In sure you respect property rights for example?

third way capitalism as practiced in northern europe does not insist that propertied people give away their property. but they do insist that all their citizens have a solid safety net, esp. the most vulnerable. the wealthy are still wealthy but not quite as wealthy as they'd be here with their high-priced tax-avoidance lawyers and such.

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20 Jul 2023, 5:21 am

auntblabby wrote:

Nades wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Humane capitalism is not communism though. In sure you respect property rights for example?

That generous capitalism though and it should be noted that Nordic countries have high amounts of oil revenue helping to prop up their economies. Norway especially has government owned oil wealth which greatly assists.

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20 Jul 2023, 8:50 am

Nades wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Nades wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Humane capitalism is not communism though. In sure you respect property rights for example?

Yeah, I like how Norway declared their oil fields to be property of the people. But all the other countries with mineral wealth in their land and seas, why couldn't they do that?

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20 Jul 2023, 11:34 am

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20 Jul 2023, 3:44 pm

Nades wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Nades wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

Humane capitalism is not communism though. In sure you respect property rights for example?

we have 3 huge stock markets and if we just taxed a penny per transaction there'd be plenty for social programs. but short-sighted wall street skinflints not only will not give up their pennies but hate the very idea of general social welfare even though the lack of same will get them in the end.

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23 Jul 2023, 10:46 am

Quote:

Communism is the state ownership of all property and business though. What you are describing isn't communism.

True communism is anarchy.

Quote:

A communist living in capitalist nation is a jealous, entitled person who almost always wants to use extortion and crime to transfer private wealth over to the state.

Sounds more like the behavior of wealthy capatalists to me, except instead of the state, their own pockets.

Quote:

There is no such thing as someone politely handing their entire net worth over to the state when requested. It'll always take considerable force which Communists have a long history of using.

not real communism, as real communists are anarchists that believe in private property ownership and gun ownership.

what haters get paranoid about is they think communism means some kind of State that forbids you from kicking out random strangers from off your own property. While that is true for a lot of Leftist American cities, those are not true communist politicians, the American left is kind of a neoliberal corporate entity, part of the socio-industrial "machine", they are not not truly communist politicians.

what true communists refer to as private property ownership refers to businesses, what they are saying is all workers should be stockholders of the company and have some say in how the company is ran. they are not saying that by law, you need to allow random strangers into your land at any given time.

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