I'm sick of young Americans obsessing over communism!

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cyberdad
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10 Dec 2023, 3:55 am

PassingThrough wrote:

there are some teachers and professors who are trying to turn the young wannabe communists into real communists.

Please show me one....just one example where this has ever happened in the history of the USA?

roronoa79
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10 Dec 2023, 6:26 pm

Fnord wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Higher education is not just about jobs. It's about broadening ones mind. I just don't see it.

When higher education stopped teaching people HOW to think, and started teaching them WHAT to think, that's when the broadening of minds ended, and people started letting other people do their thinking for them.

Ah yes, capitalists long for the good old days when schools taught that objective, apolitical things like that America is the most specialist, freedom-lovingest country in the whole wide world. Or that capitalism is the most bestest economic model in the history of the universe. Or the US constitution is the most perfectest constitution that could ever exist.
You know, objective stuff like that! Objective facts that are in no way part of any agenda by anyone in any position of power! Now stand for the pledge of allegiance or you're getting detention!

I swear, the people who decry the supposed closing of the American mind are the same people who feel like free thinkers for having the most vanilla, basic, widespread socially and politically acceptable views of America and capitalism.

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RedDeathFlower13
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11 Dec 2023, 6:47 pm

You know something? I got to thinking about what really bothers me the most about communists... and it's the way that they try to force what they believe to be right on people who never asked for their help to begin with.

Why should people who never actually wanted communism be forced to live under a communist regime?

They're actually no different than the European Colonists or Christian Missionaries who also thought thatvthey had the right to force indigenous peoples around the world to convert. Doesnt matter what real communism is supposed to be. :roll:

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belijojo
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11 Dec 2023, 7:24 pm

Fnord wrote:

There is one salient point underlying this entire thread that no one seems to have addressed; at least, not in depth.

Communism has never worked.

Sure, various governments have claimed to be Communist when in reality they were only Socialist States (the States owned the means of production) run by Feudal Governments with despotic dictators in charge.

Even now, the so-called Communist governments are indulging in Capitalism while their 'serfs' live in poverty.

Thats right

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Fnord
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12 Dec 2023, 3:58 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

Sadly, the same could be said about Anti-Vaxxers, Atheists, Christians, Conspiracy Theorists, MAGA/Trumpists, Vegans/Vegetarians, and practitioners of "Alternate Medicines".

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RedDeathFlower13
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12 Dec 2023, 4:07 am

Fnord wrote:

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:

Sadly, the same could be said about Anti-Vaxxers, Atheists, Christians, Conspiracy Theorists, MAGA/Trumpists, Vegans/Vegetarians, and practitioners of "Alternate Medicines".

Yuppers, nobody deserves to be subjected to being "corrected" by self-rightous types who think they have the authority to force it on the world.

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Nades
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12 Dec 2023, 8:13 am

Fnord wrote:

Did you ever notice that whenever Communists call for sharing the wealth it is always someone else's wealth they want to share and not their own?

That's because communists living in capitalist nations never have any wealth if their own, hence why they're so obsessed with everyone else's money.

Readydaer
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12 Dec 2023, 8:42 am

Nades wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Did you ever notice that whenever Communists call for sharing the wealth it is always someone else's wealth they want to share and not their own?

That's because communists living in capitalist nations never have any wealth if their own, hence why they're so obsessed with everyone else's money.

..because capitalists steal it all? come on, this is obvious. how can you say that 1% of the population owning 90% of the wealth is just?

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Nades
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12 Dec 2023, 10:42 am

Readydaer wrote:

Nades wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Did you ever notice that whenever Communists call for sharing the wealth it is always someone else's wealth they want to share and not their own?

That's because communists living in capitalist nations never have any wealth if their own, hence why they're so obsessed with everyone else's money.

..because capitalists steal it all? come on, this is obvious. how can you say that 1% of the population owning 90% of the wealth is just?

People in the top 50% can still lead perfectly comfortable lives though.

The top 1% don't actually steal wealth too, more often than not, it's the general public who throw money at them for their products and services.

Communism isn't just about taking wealth off the top 1% too, it's about taking wealth off the top 50%. Using the top 1% as justification which I see people who support communism regularly do is such a straw man.

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12 Dec 2023, 11:49 am

Nades wrote:

your first point isn't a good excuse. "it could be worse" never is.

your second point is technically correct but practically incorrect. The general public in America might rather use Amazon than buy from locally-owned stores simply because it's easier, but is it really better? I wouldn't call it a monopoly just yet but the fact that working conditions are so terrible for Amazon employees shows how much power Bezos has to line his pockets and fly in giant peen rockets. How is that fair?

Your third point is just a misunderstanding. Under our current capitalist system the top 1% steals from the whole rest of the pie, including the top 50%, for no benefit to the community. It's just for themselves. Under a socialist system (as wealth would not really exist under the communism Marx envisioned, at least as I understand it), the wealth of everyone is contributing to improving the society, like high taxes to support infrastructure. Would you not pay, say 40$ more a month out of your paycheck so you could ride a clean, safe, cheap bus to work rather than clog the streets with a car?

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Nades
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12 Dec 2023, 1:32 pm

Readydaer wrote:

Nades wrote:

This is naive idealism at best. Communism has and always will fail because it holds back entrepreneurship and strangles new startups before they can get off the ground. This is assuming Startups will even be legal is a communist nation.

Secondly, there seems to be a trend of communist nations swaying to capitalism because communism was just so hopelessly unsuited for growing an economy. China is the best example and used to be impoverished under Mao but cut throat capitalism has made China unrecognisable.

Thirdly, have any autistics here had a serious think how they would fair in a true communist society? I can't imagine autistics doing all that well. The ones who think it sucks under capitalism would be in for a shock when they're expected to plug in 50 hour weeks in work under communism as seems to be the case in old communist nations.

I would certainly rather my car too. I start early and don't want to wait for the bus, especially considering the lengths of my days sometimes

Fnord
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13 Dec 2023, 3:28 am

Here is something else for those young Americans to obsess about . . .

Link to related NPR article

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Fnord
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13 Dec 2023, 3:36 am

Nades wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Did you ever notice that whenever Communists call for sharing the wealth it is always someone else's wealth they want to share and not their own?

That's because communists living in capitalist nations never have any wealth if their own, hence why they're so obsessed with everyone else's money.

You must not know many Communists living in Capitalist nations.

I do.

Most of the ones I referred to were earning HASS degrees while their "Limousine Liberal" parents paid for everything.

The rest sold some of the best weed I ever smoked!

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Readydaer
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13 Dec 2023, 7:57 am

Fnord wrote:

Here is something else for those young Americans to obsess about . . .

Link to related NPR article

this is less of a Gotcha and more just sad, that capitalism is so oppressing and all-encompassing that they have no choice.

Also, it's interesting when people say "socialism has failed" and "communism has failed" because they never elaborate on what they mean by failing. did the roman empire fail? what about ancient Egypt? what about some of the middle east? have they all failed due to their countries' partial dissolutions?

if you want to argue that communism has failed you need to apply a consistent standard of success and failure. I would not, for example, say capitalism has succeeded just because it has remained for a few hundred years. That would mean that monarchy and serfdom also 'succeeded.' Existing does not mean success. Equatorial Guinea is a terrible terrible country (capitalist btw) but because it exists does it succeed where the USSR did not?

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RetroGamer87
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13 Dec 2023, 8:02 am

I don't understand how these young people can say that the current system concentrates too much power into the hands of too few people and then advocate for a system that concentrates even more power into the hands of even fewer people.

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RedDeathFlower13
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13 Dec 2023, 8:07 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Agreed. But try explaining that to the sheeples.

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