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Flagg
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26 Aug 2007, 9:37 pm

gwenevyn wrote:
If anybody truly feels that it is damaging to listen to contrary opinions, it is probably best that such an individual avoid debate forums.


^

Sounds good to me

But even then one of the main rules of the internet is...

"No Matter What It Is There Is Someone Who Hates It And Will Flame You To Death If You Mention It"



skafather84
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26 Aug 2007, 9:40 pm

gwenevyn wrote:
greenblue wrote:
What would be the reaction if you go saying that women are inferior than men, and etc, here on WP you would have a strong reaction from women calling you "mysogynist" just as well others might call you "homophobic", especially when you come up with arguments like no such good thing for society.


That's not a fair comparison, because conservative Christians (generally speaking) do not believe that homosexuals are inferior.

I think the word "homophobe" is improperly used 99% of the time. It should not be a tool for silencing others or for perpetuating logical fallacies, but all too often that is precisely what occurs. It is one of those one-liners that prevent further dialogue.

If anybody truly feels that it is damaging to listen to contrary opinions, it is probably best that such an individual avoid debate forums.



i agree that homophobe is used wrongly a lot of times and i've probably ended up using it wrong a few times. but i think it's the easiest word for a lot of people to use to describe persecuting someone for something that is beyond their control. to be denied the same rights simply because someone's religion says that they're wrong and offering no other reasoning or proof.

it's not homophobic...it's just wrong.



gwenevyn
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26 Aug 2007, 9:53 pm

skafather84 wrote:
i agree that homophobe is used wrongly a lot of times and i've probably ended up using it wrong a few times. but i think it's the easiest word for a lot of people to use to describe persecuting someone for something that is beyond their control.


Yes, I can understand that.

It seems to me that the above mentioned groups are simply against government endorsement of homosexual acts. This does not equate wishing to take rights away from people who have a homosexual orientation. People tend to miss that distinction, especially when tempers flare.

At any rate, I do hope that we're transitioning into a better atmosphere in this subforum, in which both sides can explain themselves and be heard.



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26 Aug 2007, 9:54 pm

Flagg wrote:
But even then one of the main rules of the internet is...

"No Matter What It Is There Is Someone Who Hates It And Will Flame You To Death If You Mention It"


Aye. You just better hope that they are stupid, not at all tenacious and in the minority.


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26 Aug 2007, 9:57 pm

Technically, the word 'homophobia' means fear of mankind, not just homosexuals (homo = man, phobia = fear of), so in the way that it is commonly used, I guess it could be seen as correct, but it it not completely correct. The problem is when we use terms to label people, even a technicality could end up getting everyone in trouble.


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gwenevyn
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26 Aug 2007, 10:03 pm

Quatermass wrote:
Flagg wrote:
But even then one of the main rules of the internet is...

"No Matter What It Is There Is Someone Who Hates It And Will Flame You To Death If You Mention It"


Aye. You just better hope that they are stupid, not at all tenacious and in the minority.


How about punished? :P



skafather84
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26 Aug 2007, 10:06 pm

gwenevyn wrote:
It seems to me that the above mentioned groups are simply against government endorsement of homosexual acts. This does not equate wishing to take rights away from people who have a homosexual orientation. People tend to miss that distinction, especially when tempers flare.



at this same token...that same argument could have been applied when people were fighting for equal rights for blacks in the 50s and 60s. they didn't have rights taken away, they just never had the rights to begin with. it was still wrong and it's the same with the homosexual issue.

it's denying them rights and privileges given to heterosexual couples. and there is no good reason given. and no...saying that you don't like homosexual acts isn't enough. that's the same as saying that you don't like mixed race marriages.

the hardest thing about this is that people use religion to defend the view but there's no basis for it within religion or within society....even in nature, there's many species of animals that practice homosexuality. i dunno...i just find it to be one of those things where it was thrown in by people with an agenda rather than for he betterment of the world...if that makes sense.



gwenevyn
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26 Aug 2007, 10:17 pm

skafather84 wrote:
it's denying them rights and privileges given to heterosexual couples. and there is no good reason given. and no...saying that you don't like homosexual acts isn't enough. that's the same as saying that you don't like mixed race marriages.


By "you" I hope you don't mean me personally.

I'm not arguing from my own beliefs here, just trying to shed some light on somebody else's. Devil's advocate, if you will.

You make some solid points.



skafather84
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26 Aug 2007, 10:18 pm

gwenevyn wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
it's denying them rights and privileges given to heterosexual couples. and there is no good reason given. and no...saying that you don't like homosexual acts isn't enough. that's the same as saying that you don't like mixed race marriages.


By "you" I hope you don't mean me personally.

I'm not arguing from my own beliefs here, just trying to shed some light on somebody else's. Devil's advocate, if you will.

You make some solid points.



i don't mean you personally...sorry, i have a bad habbit of saying you when addressing the opposing side of a debate.



gwenevyn
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26 Aug 2007, 10:21 pm

skafather84 wrote:
i don't mean you personally...sorry, i have a bad habbit of saying you when addressing the opposing side of a debate.


I do it, too. :)



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26 Aug 2007, 10:25 pm

gwenevyn wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
Flagg wrote:
But even then one of the main rules of the internet is...

"No Matter What It Is There Is Someone Who Hates It And Will Flame You To Death If You Mention It"


Aye. You just better hope that they are stupid, not at all tenacious and in the minority.


How about punished? :P


Punishing the flamer? But how hard is it to do so on the internet?


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skafather84
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26 Aug 2007, 10:28 pm

Quatermass wrote:
Punishing the flamer?



homophobe!! !



gwenevyn
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26 Aug 2007, 10:29 pm

Quatermass wrote:
gwenevyn wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
Aye. You just better hope that they are stupid, not at all tenacious and in the minority.


How about punished? :P


Punishing the flamer? But how hard is it to do so on the internet?


How hard is it? Depends on the punishment.

skafather84 wrote:
homophobe!! !


:lol:



Flagg
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26 Aug 2007, 10:38 pm

gwenevyn wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
gwenevyn wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
Aye. You just better hope that they are stupid, not at all tenacious and in the minority.


How about punished? :P


Punishing the flamer? But how hard is it to do so on the internet?


How hard is it? Depends on the punishment.



Very hard.

Ban?

They sign up a new account.

IP Ban?

TOR Gateway.

Ban That Account?

Use the TOR Gateway to get another IP.

Rinse and Repeat



gwenevyn
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26 Aug 2007, 10:44 pm

Does the average poster who steps over the line of decency truly possess such determination to come back and make an ass out of himself? I know we have our habitual trolls, but I'd say the main problem plaguing the PPR forum is the tendency of certain regular members to disregard certain standards of debate--not Atomika types.



skafather84
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26 Aug 2007, 10:46 pm

Flagg wrote:
gwenevyn wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
gwenevyn wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
Aye. You just better hope that they are stupid, not at all tenacious and in the minority.


How about punished? :P


Punishing the flamer? But how hard is it to do so on the internet?


How hard is it? Depends on the punishment.



Very hard.

Ban?

They sign up a new account.

IP Ban?

TOR Gateway.

Ban That Account?

Use the TOR Gateway to get another IP.

Rinse and Repeat



the most effective way is to just ignore them.


...and delete posts if they flood the board.