Oh boy, does the USA need a major overhaul!!

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nominalist
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25 Nov 2007, 8:57 am

Fuzzy wrote:

Agreed, But is that possible, and how? What means of applicable force could a successor be given?

At this point, I doubt it. I cannot imagine the leaders of most countries, especially the U.S., being willing to sacrifice most of their sovereignty. However, that what I would like to see.

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richardbenson
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25 Nov 2007, 1:21 pm

Pandora wrote:

The UN ought to be disbanded - in its present form, it is a complete waste of time.

agreed. it also needs to move across the ocean. i dont think anyone here wants it. the only reason it stays here i think is because we are its biggest financial contributors, so it will probably never leave

techstepgenr8tion
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25 Nov 2007, 1:44 pm

nominalist wrote:

Pandora wrote:

The UN ought to be disbanded - in its present form, it is a complete waste of time.

Disbanded, perhaps, but replaced by something with more teeth.

I think the UN really just fills a couple functions - emergency aid and food suppy, and it helps us keep contact with all if not almost all the independent governments of the world (ie. keeping both our friends and enemies close).

As for peace keepers though, I think its probably about the same to just set up a bunch of military scarecrows with toy Kaleshnekoffs hoping that the enemy mistakes them for real (the Sarajevo massacres are a pretty good illustration of why - really six one, half a dozen the other).

nominalist
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25 Nov 2007, 1:53 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

I am a world federalist. That is to say, I would like to see a world government (but not one dominated by corporate interests). Am I hopeful? Not at this point.

techstepgenr8tion
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25 Nov 2007, 2:15 pm

nominalist wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

I am a world federalist. That is to say, I would like to see a world government (but not one dominated by corporate interests). Am I hopeful? Not at this point.

Well, also when the human rights commission tends to be nominated by certain countries seemingly just to spite others - its not exactly serving its purpose there either. I think they're probably better off just leaving it as a forum for international politics and not expecting too much more of it.

richardbenson
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25 Nov 2007, 2:58 pm

nominalist wrote:

I am a world federalist. That is to say, I would like to see a world government (but not one dominated by corporate interests). Am I hopeful? Not at this point.

that just makes me sick. but whatever, corporations will always have there hands in a one world government because trade is what brings about such things

nominalist
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25 Nov 2007, 3:13 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Yes, and countries which have an awful human rights record, like the United States, are allowed on it.

nominalist
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25 Nov 2007, 3:15 pm

richardbenson wrote:

that just makes me sick. but whatever, corporations will always have there hands in a one world government because trade is what brings about such things

What does? World federalism or the influence of large corporations? I am a world federalist and a socialist.

However, given the current state of global capitalism and its dominance, I am not at all optimistic.

techstepgenr8tion
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25 Nov 2007, 3:36 pm

nominalist wrote:

Yes, and countries which have an awful human rights record, like the United States, are allowed on it.

Yeah, we're right up there with China, North Korea, and Libya.

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25 Nov 2007, 3:48 pm

The UN peacekeeping efforts seem to work when both sides want peace but can't do it on their own.

The UN World Health Organization is a decent organization - it coordinated the elimination of smallpox from the human population. Provided the military doesn't let the virus leak from one of their germ warfare labs, we may have won a decisive battle against a nasty infectious disease.

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25 Nov 2007, 4:00 pm

nominalist wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Yes, and countries which have an awful human rights record, like the United States, are allowed on it.

Since you bother to comment on the US's membership, I find it noteworthy that you apparently have no objections to the memberships of China, Cuba, Zimbabwe, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Algeria, Syria, Libya, Vietnam, and Sudan; all countries with sterling human rights records. :roll:

nominalist
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25 Nov 2007, 4:37 pm

UncleBeer wrote:

Not at all. I specifically mentioned the U.S. because many people attempt to elevate its human rights record above those other countries.

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25 Nov 2007, 4:44 pm

nominalist wrote:

UncleBeer wrote:

Not at all. I specifically mentioned the U.S. because many people attempt to elevate its human rights record above those other countries.

I'm of the opinion that the US's human rights record compares favorably with that of Sudan (see Darfur, for instance), or any of the others I mentioned. Not perfect, but certainly not the totalitarian nightmare the snot-nosed rock-throwers make it out to be.

techstepgenr8tion
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25 Nov 2007, 4:45 pm

nominalist wrote:

Not at all. I specifically mentioned the U.S. because many people attempt to elevate its human rights record above those other countries.

I'd be curious to know though what exactly your defining as 'human rights'. For me and for a lot of people, when we (or I for that matter) see people trying to paint a picture of the U.S. as being on par with the other countries Uncle Beer mentioned - weight vs. weight, it seems that's so much of a stretch when all facts are considered accordingly that its very difficult not to see attempts to do so as just holding that opinion for the sake of political correctness or other agendas that are just that, agendas.

If you are holding that that view just for the sake of being an internationalist though, I have a feeling that my first comment should have probably just been left as is - particularly being that nothing even approximating an intelligent discussion can come of this if that's the case.

nominalist
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25 Nov 2007, 4:56 pm

UncleBeer wrote:

My judgment is a subjective one. However, when I see the leaders of a country (my own) brag about holding people in a Cuban prison without a prospect of a trial, and to continue to hold them there, I find it to be extremely problematic. I also find U.S. disregard for international law when going into Iraq to be frightening.

nominalist
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25 Nov 2007, 5:05 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

My view of human rights would include the rights of Iraqis not to be invaded based on erroneous evidence of weapons of mass destruction.

How would Americans feel if another country, upset with President Bush, decided to invade the U.S. (if that were possible), overthrow its government, and replace it with one more to that other country's liking? The U.S., like other imperial powers throughout history, rules by the "might equals right" principle.

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