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vetivert
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08 Sep 2005, 11:55 pm

i probably could.

question is - could i be arsed... ?



Katze
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09 Sep 2005, 1:51 am

vetivert wrote:
i probably could.

question is - could i be arsed... ?



Is that a proposition? Didn't realise you were that Kinky...Babe.......mmmmmmmmm

Bad day at the Office.................?



vetivert
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09 Sep 2005, 2:53 am

hahahaha!

hardly a bad day at the office - i'd only been up about an hour when i posted that. :)

i'm in the UK, remember?

and i do believe your interpretation of "arsed", and mine, might differ, quite considerably... 8O

(i mean "bothered". i do not wish to know what you thought, ta. although i can probably guess, by inference... :roll:)



RobertN
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09 Sep 2005, 7:12 am

Katze wrote:
Can someone on this Forum connect the Katrina Event, Iraq, and the Empire building scenario of the US to Chaos Theory and the concept of Complex systems and Bifurcation points?

I'd like to see your point of view on this.


Fact is you can't - don't be stupid. There is no theory to explain the US and its deplorable actions except for the Oil Theory. This states that the oil men at the top of the Bush administration seek to invade countries like Iraq for their own self interest, and must be stopped.

As for your earlier comment about empires, I resist the US attempt to become an empire because I do not believe in this day and age there should be any empires as such. There should be a global consensus of democratic countries, such as the UN, but only much bigger.



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09 Sep 2005, 11:10 am

Fundamentalist Christians are not relegated just to politicians. Unfortunately, their stupidity litters America. What bothers me is that they're hypocritical enough to go against their own religious doctrines. That I can't stand. "Save the FETUS but let the poor people already out of the womb DIE!"

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Today they are fighting and dying for the freedom of middle easterners / asians (iraq, afghanistan).


??? You actually believe this? Poor people were getting kicked out of their homes and made homeless in Africa, starving, dying of dehydration, and I can't remember seeing ANYTHING on the US news about that, except for a minor blurb or two at the ends of shows. But clearly Democracy is why we're over in Iraq. Good grief.

Oil is why we're over there. Why weren't we in Africa? No oil. Why are we trying to spread Democracy throughout Iraq? 1. Because we're self-righteous and Democracy is clearly the only way to run a government effectively (why look at us!) and 2. to keep the US public thinking we're over there to "set things right" and are "doing something good" for the people of Iraq.

But soldiers AND Iraqis are dying because we're trying to save our precious oil and no politician will admit that (except for the Democrats of course). And to force Democracy on a people who cannot handle it's full force all in one blow is cruel and self-righteous and STUPID.

But then again, we're not really over there for Democracy.


Oil. So Americans can keep driving their SUVs and other various gas-guzzlers because the Oil Companies feed into political pockets. Instead of being over in Iraq, the government should just start backing Hybrids and other cars that maybe don't even need oil. There is too little gas and now that China is emulating our ways of living (i.e., CARS, CARS, CARS) we're angry at them for doing so. Because the oil was supposed to be ours.


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Katze
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09 Sep 2005, 4:33 pm

vetivert wrote:
hahahaha!

hardly a bad day at the office - i'd only been up about an hour when i posted that. :)

i'm in the UK, remember?

and i do believe your interpretation of "arsed", and mine, might differ, quite considerably... 8O

(i mean "bothered". i do not wish to know what you thought, ta. although i can probably guess, by inference... :roll:)



Don't get all uppity on me now Baby...Freudian Slip if ever I saw one. Looks like you're HOT!



Cath



Katze
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09 Sep 2005, 4:35 pm

RobertN wrote:
Katze wrote:
Can someone on this Forum connect the Katrina Event, Iraq, and the Empire building scenario of the US to Chaos Theory and the concept of Complex systems and Bifurcation points?

I'd like to see your point of view on this.


Fact is you can't - don't be stupid. There is no theory to explain the US and its deplorable actions except for the Oil Theory. .



Man....talk about a closed mind. what are you doing at Oxford? Flipping Burgers?



Cath



vetivert
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09 Sep 2005, 4:36 pm

gods, i loathe being called "baby"... :roll:

and robert is in cambridge, i believe.

easy mistake to make... ;)



eamonn
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09 Sep 2005, 4:54 pm

Katze wrote:


Man....talk about a closed mind. what are you doing at Oxford? Flipping Burgers?



Cath


Robert is probably living more comfortably than you but thats not the point here. Actually for you to make such an ignorant comment shows who has the closed mind here.



SpiderMonkey
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10 Sep 2005, 5:13 pm

American is about two steps away from totalitarianism, I'm not joking.

Theres a whole cult of personality thing around Dubya, coupled with far too much religious fanaticism for a modern technologically advanced nation.

There is the shameless use of the prison system for political ends. The US imprisons more people than China despite having a quarter of the population of that country, and most of the people it imprisons are black and/or poor, and in there for non-violent drug offenses. The war on drugs is actually a war on people-unlikely-to-support-the-republican-party.

American people are, in my experience, callously inhumane with regards to the rest of the world. You called the site of the WTC attack 'ground zero' for a start. The technical definition is the point on the ground directly beneath an aerial nuclear explosion. They have a ground zero shrine at Nagasaki. Using the same name to me says that Americans think 100,000 Japanese lives = 3000 American lives.

Americans have political authority over the largest collection of weapons in history and have criminally neglected that authority.. You have conducted terrorist campaigns in Vietnam, Chile, Nicaragua and Afghanistan, and consistent voted the perpetrators of these campaigns back into office at the ends of their terms.

The only problem I have with American citizens is there political negligence.



ghotistix
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10 Sep 2005, 9:26 pm

SpiderMonkey wrote:
American people are, in my experience, callously inhumane with regards to the rest of the world. You called the site of the WTC attack 'ground zero' for a start. The technical definition is the point on the ground directly beneath an aerial nuclear explosion. They have a ground zero shrine at Nagasaki. Using the same name to me says that Americans think 100,000 Japanese lives = 3000 American lives.

Actually the term "Ground zero" is used to describe the center of any disaster, whether it be a small bomb, epidemic, earthquake, nuclear detonation, hurricane, etc.



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11 Sep 2005, 1:36 am

SpiderMonkey wrote:
American is about two steps away from totalitarianism, I'm not joking.

Theres a whole cult of personality thing around Dubya, coupled with far too much religious fanaticism for a modern technologically advanced nation.

There is the shameless use of the prison system for political ends. The US imprisons more people than China despite having a quarter of the population of that country, and most of the people it imprisons are black and/or poor, and in there for non-violent drug offenses. The war on drugs is actually a war on people-unlikely-to-support-the-republican-party.

American people are, in my experience, callously inhumane with regards to the rest of the world. You called the site of the WTC attack 'ground zero' for a start. The technical definition is the point on the ground directly beneath an aerial nuclear explosion. They have a ground zero shrine at Nagasaki. Using the same name to me says that Americans think 100,000 Japanese lives = 3000 American lives.

Americans have political authority over the largest collection of weapons in history and have criminally neglected that authority.. You have conducted terrorist campaigns in Vietnam, Chile, Nicaragua and Afghanistan, and consistent voted the perpetrators of these campaigns back into office at the ends of their terms.

The only problem I have with American citizens is there political negligence.


Don't look at me. I didn't vote for GW. I may hate him even more than the rest of the world. Cause I have to live with 'im!


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jb814
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16 Sep 2005, 7:41 am

I think many Americans confuse criticism of the US with criticism of Americans. Personally I tend to think that people are just plain people, but their countries, religions, and whole areas of their social interaction are just about the worst thing I can imagine. Before Katrina struck I was watching as many websites as I could, because the rest of the world knew what the US government would not admit, they didn't give tuppence for that area. I did find the sending of hate mail to some people, who said they were going to pray for residents in affected areas, sickening but the Christian right is GWs power base and in their eyes I suppose praying for "Sin City" is pretty heinous.
In the way that "looting" seemed to be the obsession of the day I think you will have to explain why it is such a crime to seek water, food and clothing in such dire circumstances and why goods that no one was going to be able to use and that were covered by insurance anyway were so sacrosanct. The recent go ahead for Worldcom ( who devastated the stock market, wiped millions from pension funds and caused worldwide panic) to enter a merger having done got off with its past behaviour as compared to 30 odd Policemen, National Guardsmen, etc surrounding a store to get a "looter" taking water fascinates many of us outside the US. The way FEMA was filleted earlier and then set up as fall guy could have been scripted. Ex employees of FEMA have been warning about this sort of natural disaster and seem to have been "let go" because they were a distraction from the "war on terror", even the Army engineers were ignored when they were pressing for money to improve the storm defences. Now with mercenaries roaming the streets and companies with previous convictions for disturbing graves and failing to bury people im charge of burying the dead of New Orleans and the state because they have the connections to get the contracts, with a huge environmental disaster for the swamps and the Gulf of Mexico in the offing, I can't understand the complacency, indeed smugness of many Americans.
That doesn't mean that I automatically lump everyone together, or assume that all Americans have the same point of view.



Comkeen
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17 Sep 2005, 6:30 pm

Personally, its hard for me to hate a group of people that I havent met. Even though I was born in Romanian, I came to America and became naturalized and feel proud of it, even though I do not feel proud of our actions.

Those people who hated our us for our crimes in their past... every nation has its ugly spots. Japan invaded China and systematically raped, murder and oppress every single person there. Do you still hate Japan for that 50 years later? I didnt create the atomic bomb, I didnt have any relatives who owned slaves, and I sure as Hell didnt support killing indians and stealing their lands. Chances are a good number of Americans are also like that since many are also migrants. Even if they werent, they probably also have a good amount of Indian blood in them so it would be kind of weird to hate them or their ancesters...

I also think many people outside Americans misconstrued why so many people voted for Bush. It wasnt out of love or respect for him, it was out of fear. I asked all my relatives why they voted for Bush and they said it was because they thought that Kerry would be a weak foreign policy leader and that he would get more Americans killed. Of course that thinking is wrong, but that didnt stop Bush from capitolizing on it. Many of my friends and family agree that Bush did real poorly on the domestic front (weak economy, lots of jobs lost, rising debt).

Bush is a terrible leader, but he is a master politician. He ran on a campaign of fear and most Americans bought it.


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jb814
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18 Sep 2005, 3:43 am

One of the many, many Americans that I think is a really outstanding is Mark Twain.
Here is a link to some of his quotations on Patriotism.
http://www.twainquotes.com/Patriotism.html



RobertN
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19 Sep 2005, 4:23 pm

jb814 wrote:
One of the many, many Americans that I think is a really outstanding is Mark Twain.
Here is a link to some of his quotations on Patriotism.
http://www.twainquotes.com/Patriotism.html


That puts a very interesting light on things. I do not agree with all of it, but I do most of it. Patriotism as a word sounds like something to be proud of, but this guy manages to turn it round on itself, and we see the hideous ideas that lurk within.......