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Who is in the wrong?
Israel 19%  19%  [ 10 ]
Mainly Israel 24%  24%  [ 13 ]
Netrual 24%  24%  [ 13 ]
Mainly Palestine 20%  20%  [ 11 ]
Palestine 13%  13%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 54

nara44
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26 May 2008, 8:57 am

LePetitPrince wrote:
So because you are the inventors of Pentium M/CoreDuo and because you are a developed country then this give you the legitimate right to eat others' people lands? What kind of argument is that?
Nazis were very advanced too btw.
Elitism can be as bad as racism.


The arguments i presented has nothing to do with the territorial dispute or an Elitism but was meant to demonstrate to you the difference between a nation which work hard in order to take part and contribute to the human race and a country like yours,
It was meant as a response to your ahemdinejadian demagoguery.
BTW the land was never belong to the Palestinians,
There was never such a nation prior to the Jews declaring their state which was legally and internationally approved.
The pals could have their alloted share then but they choose to fight against the international law,they lost then,
and they will continue to loose until they learn how to build an independent ad united community,
no much chance there consider that even the Lebanese which have full control on their land failed to do that for so many years.

LePetitPrince wrote:
>So I am unworthy human being just because you are saying so? What are you? God?


no,
u r unworthy human being because u compare Zionism to Nazism and u don't have to be god to know that.

LePetitPrince wrote:
>Stop judging me, racist scum.


U r judged by your words not by your race,
I never say a word about or against your race.



LePetitPrince wrote:
Awww, how nice. They are enjoying the biggest prison on earth,right? Are you referring to the Palestinians in West bank and Ghaza or to the Arab Israelis?

the Palestinians in West bank and Ghaza r not part of israel,
The Arab Israelis are are in much better shape in all aspect of life then their relatives who made the mistake of relying on your god will and found themselves as a third rate citizens with no rights at all.
The Palestinians who stayed in Israel r first rate citizens with representation at the Parliament and enjoy all the freedom i enjoy,which is a lot.


LePetitPrince wrote:
Read history before judging us for being unfair with Palestinians, we are of the poorest Arab countries and we are barely able to support ourselves yet we were ones of the few Arab countries that accepted the Palestinian refugees who escaped from your country's murderous and barbaric assaults.


I find it strange that non of the huge amount of petro-dollars that flows into the unbelievably rich Arab nations could serve to help this people,
U talk a lot but do nothing,
Zionism at least built one of the best country in the world out of scratch,
Israel was built by ppl who lost every thing,homes,families,culture,wealth,health...
both my parents r sole survivors of very big families,
but they didn't waste time on holding to the past,
The bought an unfertile land,didn't steal it,bought it,and work very hard to make a garden out of it.



LePetitPrince wrote:
The Palestinians here had a homeland and it was called Palestine and they are going to return there when it's formally founded as a country .


Your fantasies r no more than a poor excuse for keeping generations of people in such a miserable state.



LePetitPrince
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26 May 2008, 9:11 am

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It just was a response to your ahemdinejadian demagoguery.


Again, for the zillionth time... I am anti-Hezbollah,yet you are relating me to Iran and Hezbollah.



skafather84
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26 May 2008, 12:59 pm

nara44 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
oscuria wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
zionism is nothing more than manifest destiny except instead of being the christian god, it's the jewish god.


same diff. still imperialistic capturing of land in the name of one's god.


Zionism was/is a secular movement. Where do you get religion from it?



you're kidding, right?


He is not,
Israel was founded by a group of ppl who rebelled against the the Jewish tradition,
None of the Israel founders was religious,
I never set foot inside a synagogue,
Most of Israelis r totaly secular.


you're switching from talking about historical accounts to your own personal accounts and interactions. it sounds to me like you're getting the two confused.



nara44
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26 May 2008, 1:17 pm

skafather84 wrote:
you're switching from talking about historical accounts to your own personal accounts and interactions. it sounds to me like you're getting the two confused.


Since Israel is the subject my personal accounts and interactions represent part of history.



nara44
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26 May 2008, 1:23 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
Quote:
It just was a response to your ahemdinejadian demagoguery.


Again, for the zillionth time... I am anti-Hezbollah,yet you are relating me to Iran and Hezbollah.


It's not me,
It's your own hateful rhetoric that relates you to ahemdinejad.



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26 May 2008, 1:35 pm

Image

A civilized raising of children



skafather84
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26 May 2008, 1:35 pm

nara44 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
you're switching from talking about historical accounts to your own personal accounts and interactions. it sounds to me like you're getting the two confused.


Since Israel is the subject my personal accounts and interactions represent part of history.



modern day interactions are definitely subject to your personal accounts but i'm talking the origins, i wanna hear some talk about how rothschild was a secularist or how theodor hertzl was actually an atheist. or maybe saying how the early plans of making a "jewish only" state isn't bigoted in some way or how the whole idea of right of return isn't just despicable on a global level (and insulting to jews...implying that they can only live happy lives in israel...they actively pursued that angle in france).

and as best as i can tell, judaism is a religion first and foremost. the race varies (just ask beta israel about that one). so...tell me...how is it not religion?



nara44
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26 May 2008, 7:54 pm

skafather84 wrote:
modern day interactions are definitely subject to your personal accounts but i'm talking the origins, i wanna hear some talk about how rothschild was a secularist or how theodor hertzl was actually an atheist. or maybe saying how the early plans of making a "jewish only" state isn't bigoted in some way or how the whole idea of right of return isn't just despicable on a global level (and insulting to jews...implying that they can only live happy lives in israel...they actively pursued that angle in france).

and as best as i can tell, judaism is a religion first and foremost. the race varies (just ask beta israel about that one). so...tell me...how is it not religion?


Well,
Your best isn't much,
Judaism is many things,
Its also a culture,An history,A common fate shares for thousands years by group of people,
Common traits(there is nothing religious about the Jewish humor) and countless other thing that define a People or a nation.
Fact is the majority if Israelis doesn't practice religion and u don't have to be religious on order to enjoy the right of return which is not so different from the rights most nation in the world grant their own people,
What is different,and if u bothered to learn history u wouldn't me to explain u the obvious,
Is that Jews were prosecuted for thousands of years all around the world,
so the idea of safe heaven in the country of the Jews is based on the sad fact that Jews still have to face bigots like u all around the world and especially in Europe where the number of antisemitic incidents is always on the rise, France is a good example,which is not surprising considering it was among st the many European nations who eagerly assisted the Nazi genocide the Jews.
There is no "Jewish only" country and there never was,
Christians,muslims,druz,bahais... here enjoy the same rights i enjoy,
"Megilat Hahzmaot" ,the paper that lay the foundation to the state of Israel, declared an obligation to equality to any race,religion or ethnicity,
None of the other country in the ME offer such freedom and human approach toward it minority yet u choose to pick on Israel and side with the violence,injustice and inhumane way the Arab countries around us treat their minorities,
U probably a bigot yourself because i can't see any other reason to such discrimination except for a blind hatred.

The newish national movement was created by the Jews of the "Haskala" which by definition were secular and nationhood evolving out of religion is not something unheard of,
many modern nation were created by the same process.



nara44
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26 May 2008, 8:09 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:

A civilized raising of children


This children,and their mothers, were raised under a constant barrage of rockets fired from your country,
first by your friends the Palestinians,
and then by your enemies the hizbolla,
it seems that one thing unite all Lebanese,
the thirst for the blood of the innocents,
if it's not the blood of Israeli children,
Christians, druz,Muslims,seculars will also do,
As long there is someone to butcher u can consider yourself a Lebanese,
What other nation in the world is so obsessed with the killings of each other,
and if u can't kill your brothers u looking for someone outside your border,
guess,old habit r hard control/

writing wishes on shells maybe a bit unpleasent to watch but u really can't compare it to the actual action of firing them.



skafather84
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26 May 2008, 8:13 pm

nara44 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
modern day interactions are definitely subject to your personal accounts but i'm talking the origins, i wanna hear some talk about how rothschild was a secularist or how theodor hertzl was actually an atheist. or maybe saying how the early plans of making a "jewish only" state isn't bigoted in some way or how the whole idea of right of return isn't just despicable on a global level (and insulting to jews...implying that they can only live happy lives in israel...they actively pursued that angle in france).

and as best as i can tell, judaism is a religion first and foremost. the race varies (just ask beta israel about that one). so...tell me...how is it not religion?


Well,
Your best isn't much,
Judaism is many things,
Its also a culture,An history,A common fate shares for thousands years by group of people,
Common traits(there is nothing religious about the Jewish humor) and countless other thing that define a People or a nation.
Fact is the majority if Israelis doesn't practice religion and u don't have to be religious on order to enjoy the right of return which is not so different from the rights most nation in the world grant their own people,
What is different,and if u bothered to learn history u wouldn't me to explain u the obvious,
Is that Jews were prosecuted for thousands of years all around the world,
so the idea of safe heaven in the country of the Jews is based on the sad fact that Jews still have to face bigots like u all around the world and especially in Europe where the number of antisemitic incidents is always on the rise, France is a good example,which is not surprising considering it was among st the many European nations who eagerly assisted the Nazi genocide the Jews.
There is no "Jewish only" country and there never was,
Christians,muslims,druz,bahais... here enjoy the same rights i enjoy,
"Megilat Hahzmaot" ,the paper that lay the foundation to the state of Israel, declared an obligation to equality to any race,religion or ethnicity,
None of the other country in the ME offer such freedom and human approach toward it minority yet u choose to pick on Israel and side with the violence,injustice and inhumane way the Arab countries around us treat their minorities,
U probably a bigot yourself because i can't see any other reason to such discrimination except for a blind hatred.

The newish national movement was created by the Jews of the "Haskala" which by definition were secular and nationhood evolving out of religion is not something unheard of,
many modern nation were created by the same process.



so...i ask for a response dealing with the secular nature of the founders of the zionist movement and you simply give me "jews have been persecuted for thousands of years" nonsense* with throwing in a couple of baseless accusations towards my character.

* which if that was anywhere near true and to the epic extent you're implying, rothchild would not have earned his money nor would many other wealthy jewish families (who earned their weath in europe). not to mention you'd see more like what america is seeing today with regards to african american culture and the stagnation of progress through denial of education and forcibly keeping down the race. because when there is a real racism, they can keep the people down very effectively. what goes on today is more of a defense mechanism against any criticism through residual guilt for allowing the holocaust to happen...which is also where the whole crying racist for anyone who dares oppose israel tactic comes from.


but i have one more question: how is it a safe haven to steal land from an area where there are such people like amin al-husseini and his followers? how is that any safer than europe? the whole "safe haven" argument holds no water simply because of WHERE it was placed. i have no problem with giving some land to the people but israel steps all over the holy land of people who were already living there and living in the area. not to mention they have a larger concentration...don't you think it would be kinda obvious that they might take offense to their holy lands being grabbed by someone of another religion? maybe even consider it a modern attempt at the crusades and recapturing the holy land considering that a large base of support for israel comes from the more fundamental christians?

so i guess what i'm saying in the immediately above paragraph is: how the hell is it safer in israel than europe or america?



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26 May 2008, 9:28 pm

Israel should liberate those weird camps they set up (all they do is make the opposition more violent). Jews seriously know better than that. Israel should let go of some of its paranoia and choose defense over offense.

Palestinians should stop obsessing over Israel and focus on uniting themselves.


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oscuria
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26 May 2008, 9:36 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
Image

A civilized raising of children


You're right, Real parents raise their kid to fight in the front lines instead.


Image

Image

Image

Image


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skafather84
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26 May 2008, 10:00 pm

do i get to post pictures of prussian blue, the aryan youth movement, and kkk with their kids to show how your posting a few pictures of fringe movements does not necessarily reflect a whole population?



oscuria
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26 May 2008, 10:51 pm

skafather84 wrote:
do i get to post pictures of prussian blue, the aryan youth movement, and kkk with their kids to show how your posting a few pictures of fringe movements does not necessarily reflect a whole population?


Are the people behind them? Are the nations' leaders supportive of the rhetoric?

How quick you are to defend against when you've nothing to criticize the first picture.


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26 May 2008, 10:58 pm

I think the issue is probably a little more complex than who's wrong. They've both committed numerous atrocities over the years, and I really can't see how anyone would plan to resolve this in a "fair" manner.


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oscuria
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26 May 2008, 11:04 pm

Orwell wrote:
I think the issue is probably a little more complex than who's wrong. They've both committed numerous atrocities over the years, and I really can't see how anyone would plan to resolve this in a "fair" manner.


The Israelis can solve this but the "International Community" would probably disown Israel.


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