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Aspie_Chav
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06 Aug 2008, 12:15 pm

Dogbrain wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Oh, I couldn't disagree more. All is NOT good and there IS a symmetry between good and evil in the spiritual realm. All the world religions acknowledge the existence of good and evil. Believe it or not, this is totally outside the realm of science. Science can't explain God or the Devil. It tries, but it simply cannot.


Science also cannot explain Flying Spaghetti Monster. Science also cannot explain "Bob". Does this mean that, in your opinion, the Flying Spaghetti Monster and "Bob" should be given the same credence you give to God or the devil?


It feels like a week argument you are making. He could say that the majority of the human population know that there is a God but no one has absolute understanding of him. The same way you know I am a black man, but you don't know anything about me, only interpretation of what I am about.



richardbenson
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06 Aug 2008, 12:18 pm

OrderAndChaos30 wrote:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UF3yb1g30Io
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=UF3yb1g30Io[/youtube]
thats one of my favorite youtubers right there. dude knows whats up



Dogbrain
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06 Aug 2008, 12:27 pm

Aspie_Chav wrote:
Dogbrain wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Oh, I couldn't disagree more. All is NOT good and there IS a symmetry between good and evil in the spiritual realm. All the world religions acknowledge the existence of good and evil. Believe it or not, this is totally outside the realm of science. Science can't explain God or the Devil. It tries, but it simply cannot.


Science also cannot explain Flying Spaghetti Monster. Science also cannot explain "Bob". Does this mean that, in your opinion, the Flying Spaghetti Monster and "Bob" should be given the same credence you give to God or the devil?


It feels like a week argument you are making. He could say that the majority of the human population know that there is a God but no one has absolute understanding of him. The same way you know I am a black man, but you don't know anything about me, only interpretation of what I am about.


All he said was that "science" could not explain something. That doesn't mean that it exists. As for widespread belief, consensus gentium is fallacious.



slowmutant
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06 Aug 2008, 12:29 pm

Fnord wrote:
I'm confused ... whose sacred sky-fairy is the topic of discussion this time?


Mine.



Aspie_Chav
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06 Aug 2008, 12:40 pm

Image
According to this chart only 16% are atheists. By argument of pure number of believers, is possible to say God exists. And by pure lack of serious believers on the religion of the flying spaghetti monster must mean that that religion is unlikely to be the truth of the universe.

You need to prove scientifically why humankind chooses to believe that which is not true. That has already been done, but few people, including aspies are aware of that.



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06 Aug 2008, 12:50 pm

Aspie_Chav wrote:
According to this chart only 16% are atheists. By argument of pure number of believers, is possible to say God exists.


Logical fallacy. It's called consensus gentium. It is only possible to argue that a lot of people believe something. Belief is not the same thing as truth, unless you wish to argue that at one time in the past, the universe was geocentric and then ceased being such as belief in geocentrism declined.



Aspie_Chav
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06 Aug 2008, 1:03 pm

Views on science change as new theories are discovered apply as much to science as to religion no?



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06 Aug 2008, 1:42 pm

Dogbrain wrote:
Aspie_Chav wrote:
According to this chart only 16% are atheists. By argument of pure number of believers, is possible to say God exists.


Logical fallacy. It's called consensus gentium. It is only possible to argue that a lot of people believe something. Belief is not the same thing as truth, unless you wish to argue that at one time in the past, the universe was geocentric and then ceased being such as belief in geocentrism declined.

"Faith is belief in unprovable things." -- Mark Barner

"Proof Denies Faith." -- Douglas Adams

Truth can be proven; faith can only be believed.



Dogbrain
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06 Aug 2008, 2:41 pm

Aspie_Chav wrote:
Views on science change as new theories are discovered apply as much to science as to religion no?


So, you are telling me that you actually do believe that the universe REALLY WAS physically geocentric and then stopped being physically geocentric?



Dogbrain
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06 Aug 2008, 2:42 pm

Fnord wrote:
Truth can be proven; faith can only be believed.


Have you found a "truth" that has survived rigorous application of Sextus Empiricus's "tropes"?



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06 Aug 2008, 3:17 pm

Sextus Empiricus was subversive to reason, in that his 'prime directive' was the suspension of judgement regarding any belief system based on faith alone. This is the Pyrrhonian Standard, which extends itself to the concept that God may or may not exist, but that claims for His existance or non-existance are not naturally true.

So, rather than address himself to questions like "Does God exist?", he advocates avoidance of the entire "God question."

And, there are TEN tropes. For example...

1. Different animals manifest different modes of perception;
2. Similar differences are seen among individual men;
3. For the same man, information perceived with the senses is self-contradictory
4. Furthermore it varies from time to time with physical changes
5. In addition, this data differs according to local relations
6. Objects are known only indirectly through the medium of air, moisture, etc.
7. These objects are in a condition of perpetual change in colour, temperature, size and motion
8. All perceptions are relative and interact one upon another
9. Our impressions become less critical through repetition and custom
10. All men are brought up with different beliefs, under different laws and social conditions

Sextus' assertion is that truth varies infinitely under circumstances whose importance to one another cannot be accurately judged by human observers. He therefore rejects any concept of absolute knowledge, since every man has different perceptions, and he arranges this sense-gathered data in methods peculiar to himself. An idea of truth for him thus becomes purely subjective.

Thus, Sextus relies more on Qualia than Quanta - more on the perceptive experience than any measureable experiment.



slowmutant
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06 Aug 2008, 8:10 pm

The kind of truth which isn't factual? That's faith. There are many things which are true but not factual, things true to life, to human experience, etc. And that is why religious claims are never couched in fact. Science covers all the literal truth that we know of, everything that can be experienced directly through the 5 senses and the senses' artificial extensions.



qaliqo
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06 Aug 2008, 9:06 pm

Dogbrain wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I'm confused ... whose sacred sky-fairy is the topic of discussion this time?


JEHOVA1 is God. Are you ready for X-Day?


Already killed "Bob" and replaced him with myself. :D Got Slack?


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