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Lord_Gareth
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27 Jun 2012, 7:23 pm

It's actually quite possible to reason with a sociopath. Sociopathy is a lack of remorse; sociopaths do not have a 'guilt' response. However, they still have full (and sometimes even exceptional) use of their mental faculties, and they're quite able to understand the idea of consequences for their actions. You might not be able to motivate them through guilt or by invoking the idea of 'right' or 'wrong', but you can reason with them just fine if you either A. give them an incentive to care (payment, reward, praise) or B. give them consequences for their actions (ostracism, jail time, threat of execution).

Hell, many serial killers act in a 'reasonable' fashion by attempting to avoid being caught, building up false fronts or identities, and/or staying on the move. Is their behavior deviant? Certainly. But they engage in that behavior with a lot of forethought and planning that indicates a degree of reasoned thought to how they can both indulge in it and avoid consequences.


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Joker
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27 Jun 2012, 7:34 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
It's actually quite possible to reason with a sociopath. Sociopathy is a lack of remorse; sociopaths do not have a 'guilt' response. However, they still have full (and sometimes even exceptional) use of their mental faculties, and they're quite able to understand the idea of consequences for their actions. You might not be able to motivate them through guilt or by invoking the idea of 'right' or 'wrong', but you can reason with them just fine if you either A. give them an incentive to care (payment, reward, praise) or B. give them consequences for their actions (ostracism, jail time, threat of execution).

Hell, many serial killers act in a 'reasonable' fashion by attempting to avoid being caught, building up false fronts or identities, and/or staying on the move. Is their behavior deviant? Certainly. But they engage in that behavior with a lot of forethought and planning that indicates a degree of reasoned thought to how they can both indulge in it and avoid consequences.


I know that but to reason with a sociopath that is trying to harm you isn't going to happen.



Lord_Gareth
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27 Jun 2012, 7:53 pm

Joker wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
It's actually quite possible to reason with a sociopath. Sociopathy is a lack of remorse; sociopaths do not have a 'guilt' response. However, they still have full (and sometimes even exceptional) use of their mental faculties, and they're quite able to understand the idea of consequences for their actions. You might not be able to motivate them through guilt or by invoking the idea of 'right' or 'wrong', but you can reason with them just fine if you either A. give them an incentive to care (payment, reward, praise) or B. give them consequences for their actions (ostracism, jail time, threat of execution).

Hell, many serial killers act in a 'reasonable' fashion by attempting to avoid being caught, building up false fronts or identities, and/or staying on the move. Is their behavior deviant? Certainly. But they engage in that behavior with a lot of forethought and planning that indicates a degree of reasoned thought to how they can both indulge in it and avoid consequences.


I know that but to reason with a sociopath that is trying to harm you isn't going to happen.


Depends. Why is he trying to harm me, and what do I have to offer or threaten him with?


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Joker
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27 Jun 2012, 7:56 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
It's actually quite possible to reason with a sociopath. Sociopathy is a lack of remorse; sociopaths do not have a 'guilt' response. However, they still have full (and sometimes even exceptional) use of their mental faculties, and they're quite able to understand the idea of consequences for their actions. You might not be able to motivate them through guilt or by invoking the idea of 'right' or 'wrong', but you can reason with them just fine if you either A. give them an incentive to care (payment, reward, praise) or B. give them consequences for their actions (ostracism, jail time, threat of execution).

Hell, many serial killers act in a 'reasonable' fashion by attempting to avoid being caught, building up false fronts or identities, and/or staying on the move. Is their behavior deviant? Certainly. But they engage in that behavior with a lot of forethought and planning that indicates a degree of reasoned thought to how they can both indulge in it and avoid consequences.


I know that but to reason with a sociopath that is trying to harm you isn't going to happen.


Depends. Why is he trying to harm me, and what do I have to offer or threaten him with?


They harm because they don't care. I have often been viewed as one myself by my former high school peers. They target the weak like to controle others and play God. By having the power to take another persons life knowing that it's in their hands how do you reason with that?



Lord_Gareth
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27 Jun 2012, 9:00 pm

Joker wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
It's actually quite possible to reason with a sociopath. Sociopathy is a lack of remorse; sociopaths do not have a 'guilt' response. However, they still have full (and sometimes even exceptional) use of their mental faculties, and they're quite able to understand the idea of consequences for their actions. You might not be able to motivate them through guilt or by invoking the idea of 'right' or 'wrong', but you can reason with them just fine if you either A. give them an incentive to care (payment, reward, praise) or B. give them consequences for their actions (ostracism, jail time, threat of execution).

Hell, many serial killers act in a 'reasonable' fashion by attempting to avoid being caught, building up false fronts or identities, and/or staying on the move. Is their behavior deviant? Certainly. But they engage in that behavior with a lot of forethought and planning that indicates a degree of reasoned thought to how they can both indulge in it and avoid consequences.


I know that but to reason with a sociopath that is trying to harm you isn't going to happen.


Depends. Why is he trying to harm me, and what do I have to offer or threaten him with?


They harm because they don't care. I have often been viewed as one myself by my former high school peers. They target the weak like to controle others and play God. By having the power to take another persons life knowing that it's in their hands how do you reason with that?


Have you read what I've posted? You offer a threat or promise more compelling than what they're getting out of your death. If you can reasonably prove that they can't get away with killing you, they won't. Not everyone CAN, of course, which is the reason people die anyway.


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Joker
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27 Jun 2012, 9:02 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
It's actually quite possible to reason with a sociopath. Sociopathy is a lack of remorse; sociopaths do not have a 'guilt' response. However, they still have full (and sometimes even exceptional) use of their mental faculties, and they're quite able to understand the idea of consequences for their actions. You might not be able to motivate them through guilt or by invoking the idea of 'right' or 'wrong', but you can reason with them just fine if you either A. give them an incentive to care (payment, reward, praise) or B. give them consequences for their actions (ostracism, jail time, threat of execution).

Hell, many serial killers act in a 'reasonable' fashion by attempting to avoid being caught, building up false fronts or identities, and/or staying on the move. Is their behavior deviant? Certainly. But they engage in that behavior with a lot of forethought and planning that indicates a degree of reasoned thought to how they can both indulge in it and avoid consequences.


I know that but to reason with a sociopath that is trying to harm you isn't going to happen.


Depends. Why is he trying to harm me, and what do I have to offer or threaten him with?


They harm because they don't care. I have often been viewed as one myself by my former high school peers. They target the weak like to controle others and play God. By having the power to take another persons life knowing that it's in their hands how do you reason with that?


Have you read what I've posted? You offer a threat or promise more compelling than what they're getting out of your death. If you can reasonably prove that they can't get away with killing you, they won't. Not everyone CAN, of course, which is the reason people die anyway.


I don't think they care if they get caught/



ruveyn
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27 Jun 2012, 9:28 pm

princesseli wrote:
Right now Im taking a philosophy class and we studied a philosopher Kant. He defined humans as individuals that have the ability to reason. I asked my philosophy prof if Kant believed that all humans(species) were humans(had the ability to reason). This is the responce he gave me

"If I understand your question correctly, you've asked a question that philosophers are still debating about today. Unfortunately it's not clear from Kant's writings whether he thought that all human beings (as members of a species) are persons in the sense of having reason, being worthy of dignity and all the other things that go along with it. I have a friend who is writing his dissertation on precisely this topic, so I asked him what his take was. He said that it looks like he would have probably said that all human beings are persons, but it's also clear that Kant wasn't considering the wide range of human beings -- people who are severely autistic, or developmentally disabled, or people in the advanced stages of alzheimer's, for instance."

I would like to think that all humans do have the ability to reason or some ability. Im really not familar with the abilities of people that have severe learning developmental problems? So what do you guys think, do all humans have the ability to reason.


All "normal" humans which is the overwhelming majority of the human race have the ability to speak, understand and reason.

That is why Aristotle declared that Man is a Rational Animal.

The few with organically damaged brains and neural systems either have a diminished capacity to reason and some of those none no capacity to reason at all. But such unfortunate folk are statistically very rare.

ruveyn



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28 Jun 2012, 12:13 pm

Joker wrote:
Your not seeing the point of what I mean by reasoning with a sociopath.


Which part of:

Quote:
But that's you using a different sense of the word again.


did you fail to read? Or did you fail to understand some part of it? What is the deficiency in your cognitive capacity that makes it so difficult to reason with you? It certainly can't be the inability to reason--so perhaps it's intentional.


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