Why do people hate America?
After being the hero of the world (Russia beat Napoleon, we beat Hitler)
Get your facts right, boy. Napoleon withdrew from Russia in the winter, they were dying form the cold. He was defeated by the Belgians and the English in Waterloo Belgium!!
Waterloo was after the Hundred Days - the Russians did, the first time, defeat Napoleon, leading eventually to the fall of Paris, Napoleon's exile and the restoration of the monarchy. After Napoleon escaped and seized power again in France, he was defeated at Waterloo by the combined forces of Britain and Prussia. Like Hitler, Napoleon failed to foresee a prolonged Russian campaign ad therefore failed to prepare for the bitter Russian winter.
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I am the steppenwolf that never learned to dance. (Sedaka)
El hombre es una bestia famélica, envidiosa e insaciable. (Francisco Tario)
I'm male by the way (yes, I know my avatar is misleading).
Pardon my late reply, I've been busy all day. Anyway, no, TV has nothing to do with my information, I don't even watch it except at relative's houses. I find the attempt to malign me pretty standard issue though, since many people who have never been here think that America is a nation of couch potatoes. What seriously gets on my nerves about all the anti-Americanism is the hypocrisy of all of it. As if the various countries of Europe didn't have colonial empires that brutally oppressed natives, as if no other countries ever meddle in each other's affairs. We've been in the spotlight a long time now because we've been the world leader for so long, and so many people have come to rely on for so many things. As I've stated in other posts, we are in a no-win situation as far as world opinion goes, if we try to stop something awful from happening we're playing world cop and meddling, if we let it happen we're callous and heartless. This on top of the billions of dollars in foreign aid that we simply give away every year, and still people hate us. People will go to great lengths to find reasons to hate us, they'll hate us for internal policies that have no affect on anyone else, they'll hate us for our culture, they'll hate us for our values, they'll hate us for our freedoms, they'll always find a reason. In some places, hating America has cachet, like hating Walmart or Microsoft, even some Americans like to hate America! No one likes the top dog, I just wish people could be a little more honest about their reasons.
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That sounds like paranoia, Dox47. I think you take it all too personally. People have many reasons to be critical of your country, but I wouldn't say that amounts to hate of it. I expect most accept that as imperfect as the current situation is, it could be much worse if the US wasn't the dominant economic and military force it is.
You know, the hardest thing I have coming to terms with, is how the populist politics of your nation allow the ignorant, insular, and relatively-dim majority to dictate prosperity or penury, even life or death, for millions of people across the world.
pheonixiis
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don't tell me that Bush started or is to blame for teh overall world opinion on America. Trace some centuries back where you will find a few more presidents acting as if they owned the world
Centuries huh?
We've only been around for a little over 200 years. I suppose you could find them, or interpret the behavior of individual presidents that way. We've been A**holes since our conception on your timeline though. Perhaps looking through a rather jaded microscope(?)
Centuries is still equal to 2 centuries and a half. Look at your policy of invading South and Central American countries. America needs tungsten, silver, gas, copper and now recently bio fuel from those exploited countries (your own back yard) for you to keep and maintain your comforable lives.
In Brazil they even raise cattle to provide with beef for MCDonalds, bio theft and patenting of millenary sacred plants from indigenous peoples to be sold at lucrative prices by your pharmaceutical giants.
You even got sweat shops in NY with third world employees. Did you know how many illegal immigrants died in the twin towers? An estimate of 3000. Their relatives, illegal too, never dared to ask for their bodies of fear of getting deported...
Without the slaves ti would never have become that big a power, you were all immigrants and now you bar Mexicans with "a Berlin" wall between you and the Mexico.
One could ask, who gives you the right to stop immigration when you have killed off 80% of the native population to build your god's on country and make the American dream come true. Not ot mention that California was part of Mexico and before that of teh Aztec empire...you gobbled it all up and did nuclear experiments in the Pacific not caring that it would affect the indigenous peoples who lived on those islands.
You pointed at Saddam Hussein and at Apartheid and yet you hold a Native American Indian leader in jail since 1974's uprising in Wounded Knee. The list is loooooooooooooooooooooooong of atrocities committed in your country and outside of it, you live in a police state and you think you got a choice to choose a leader (democrats and Reps are just the same and the choice between 2 parties is rather limited and flawed).
Just check a few flags I made of your countries history
http://www.alann.info/site/kunstwerken/ ... 1_NEW.html
I'm not denying any of those things. They are horrible, a travesty against humanity. You still haven't pointed out the names or policies of any specific presidents from over two centuries ago.
You are highlighting policies from the 19th century to current. (With the exception of slavery (which many European countries still indulged in during the time as well, although I will admit we were one of the last to do away with it; and the systematic decimation of the Native Population, which again was following a precedent set by Spain and Britain.) All disgusting. True.
However, as I said, Spain and Britain don't have great track records themselves when it comes to human rights and exploitation over the centuries, particularly during the time period you were trying to stretch our all-pervasive-immorality to.
Over the last 5 decades or so, I will admit that the United States probably wins the prize, but you still haven't proven your "centuries" statement.
You were trying to establish that we have a track record of travesty that spans nearly our entire history, which isn't true. Or at least, is no worse and in many cases better then the crimes against humanity committed by contemporary peers. That is all I am disputing.
Bringing up the World Trade Center, our current police state, our current immigration policies are side-stepping the dispute I brought up, with more than a bit of emotionally driven propaganda. It frankly looks like you are trying to change the subject.
what I meant to say is, that the collapse of America and the image and prestige it has lost is not due to th Bush dynasty alone, you have to look much further than that. he is only accountable for what happened in the last 8 years
Agreed.
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To be fair, much of that money is really disguised subsidies for US farmers, sailors, etc, and much of the aid is, for example, military aid to relatively prosperous countries like Israel and Egypt. There's a big difference between the price tag taxpayers pay and the actual aid Third World poor receive. This is true of aid in general and not just of US aid in particular, the thing is in terms of aid as a percentage of GDP the US is one of the stingiest developed countries around (which is probably why France is more popular in Africa than the US).
Yep, there's no serious dispute that the Russian campaign broke Napoleon's army's back; Waterloo was just Napoleon's last battle. Incidentally, the Belgians had nothing to do with it; it was Prussia and Britain that defeated him at Waterloo.
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I am the steppenwolf that never learned to dance. (Sedaka)
El hombre es una bestia famélica, envidiosa e insaciable. (Francisco Tario)
I'm male by the way (yes, I know my avatar is misleading).
Chibi_Neko
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Reasons why I dislike the USA politically:
- the death penalty
- the social security is a total joke, maybe ask Cuba for advice as they have a good network for their citizens
- country turning into a religious totalitarian state step by step
- invading countries randomly where the US has nothing to search and where they have no rights to interfere with local business
- trying to constantly force its own values onto the rest of the world, not realising most other nations (including the European ones) are no longer having that American Dream. Most here in Europe see the States as a bit backward in some ways.
- corporate politics
- did I mention the death penalty already?
- Guantanamo Bay and several other serious violations of human rights
- not recognising the Tribunal of The Hague while meanwhile still demanding a leading role in UN and NATO (either you recognise the club entirely or you stay out if the club membership rules dont appeal... you cannot have both)
Other than that, the people seem very influential by the media, and most mass production on cultural level is of very low level (the average Hollywood movie and the idolisation of celebrity life as sad highlights). But those are not such a big issues.
I dont hate the USA nor its people. I only hate its politics. In a different way than the way in which I hate the politics of my own country. Maybe if the death penalty would be abolished (a very sensitive issue for me) I would be more forgiving for their other violations. Basically I think the USA fits in the same category as the likes of Iran: corrupt government with absolutely no respect for human life.
I totally agree. What really bugs me is dispite the issues that are going on in America, they still say that they are the greatest country on earth, which is funny because a lot of people who say this haven't left the country before, and that America has not once been number 1 in the world's most developed country by the United Nations, (Iceland is currenty number one now)
List of most developed countries on 2007
Iceland
Norway
Australia
Canada
Ireland
Sweden
Switzerland
Japan
Netherlands
France
Finland
United States
Spain
Denmark
Austria
Belgium
United Kingdom
Luxembourg
New Zealand
Italy
Hong Kong
Germany
Israel
Greece
Singapore
South Korea
Slovenia
Cyprus
Portugal
Brunei
In the past 25 years, Norway was given 1st place 6 times and Canada 1st place 10 times
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Humans are intelligent, but that doesn't make them smart.
I agree that their is a 'top-dog' effect where a leader can act as a lightning rod for criticism - McDonalds and diet is another example.
On the other hand, the idea that lots of people around the world hate us for our freedoms doesn't hold much explanatory power. When we did the Marshall plan, Europe and most of the world cheered. When we twisted arms to get countries to join the 'coalition of the willing', people around the world said snarky things, even if their governments put on a smile and repeated the coalition's slogans. Likewise, for most of the past 50 years, America was seen as an 'honest broker' in the Middle East - that changed with Bush. Policies do matter.
That sounds like paranoia, Dox47. I think you take it all too personally. People have many reasons to be critical of your country, but I wouldn't say that amounts to hate of it. I expect most accept that as imperfect as the current situation is, it could be much worse if the US wasn't the dominant economic and military force it is.
You know, the hardest thing I have coming to terms with, is how the populist politics of your nation allow the ignorant, insular, and relatively-dim majority to dictate prosperity or penury, even life or death, for millions of people across the world.
Perhaps I'm using the term "hate" a bit liberally, but paranoid? Look at what I bolded in your post, this is pretty typical of what I'm hearing from people that don't live here. People who have never set foot in this country will say things like what you just did, then in the same breath take some potshots at me that I must have a distorted world view as an American. Doe is not occur that being a non-American can also lead to a distorted world view?
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Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.
- Rick Sanchez
To be fair, much of that money is really disguised subsidies for US farmers, sailors, etc, and much of the aid is, for example, military aid to relatively prosperous countries like Israel and Egypt. There's a big difference between the price tag taxpayers pay and the actual aid Third World poor receive. This is true of aid in general and not just of US aid in particular, the thing is in terms of aid as a percentage of GDP the US is one of the stingiest developed countries around (which is probably why France is more popular in Africa than the US).
What I was talking about was more that whenever another country has a disaster, we're the first in line with aide to help. Cyclone, famine, hurricane, etc, we and our charities are always there, with absolutely no reciprocation. Anyone offer to help us out with Katrina? We are a generous people, and continue to give even when there is no reciprocity and little in the way of gratitude. As far as the popularity of France goes, remember that these are also the same people who sold Saddam nuclear technology and helped him circumvent the oil for food project, when they're involved in the third world there's going to be a quid pro quo involved, whether it's out in the open or not. I won't argue on the military aide, though I do wish we would cut that back a bit.
_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.
- Rick Sanchez
The first post is full of good reason, of course , I hate America, not Americans in general, I even like a couple of American companies, but in all seriousness, that government is something I must hate... Really, they even attempted to start a civil war here this year? Somebody needs to scream a loud STFU to these people.
France vs. US - Round 1
* France sold Saddam nuclear technology.
* US used a nuclear bomb on massive civilian targets.
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Well, as a few examples, European far leftists don't like our freedom of speech, many Muslims don't like our equality for women and unchasteness of our culture, countries like China certainly don't like our political freedom. To these people, we are an example of things that they hate that not only works but works very well, and thus present living contradiction of their dogma. That is what I meant by people hating us for our freedoms.
Of course everyone liked the Marshall plan, many of them were getting massive aide packages! Nazi Germany would probably have been popular if it started giving away money, I'd hardly call that a triumph of statesmanship. It was however a triumph of foresight, in seeing that a rebuilt enemy could be a staunch ally. Consider the irony now of the European that smears America because of our history with slavery and the Indians. This person's very existence was purchased with American blood, their country rebuilt with American money, but wait, that's all blood money since we once had slaves and the Indians got a raw deal. Where does that put them?
With Bush, I don't even think it was his policies that angered Europe so much as his attitude towards them personally; like an afterthought. This was a bit of a shock after the Clinton years, and I think they've taken it personally. Michael Moore winning the top prize at Cannes with his quasi-documentary was an excellent example of how far anti-Americanism had gone in Europe by 2004, and all the real controversies were still in the future. Again, as much as anything I think it's become cool in some way to voice your dislike of America, much as Americans like to say that they're anti corporate. It will be interesting to see what affect the new presidency has on the world attitude towards America, regardless of who wins.
_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.
- Rick Sanchez
To be fair, much of that money is really disguised subsidies for US farmers, sailors, etc, and much of the aid is, for example, military aid to relatively prosperous countries like Israel and Egypt. There's a big difference between the price tag taxpayers pay and the actual aid Third World poor receive. This is true of aid in general and not just of US aid in particular, the thing is in terms of aid as a percentage of GDP the US is one of the stingiest developed countries around (which is probably why France is more popular in Africa than the US).
What I was talking about was more that whenever another country has a disaster, we're the first in line with aide to help.
Generally true, I agree.
Mexico sent in humanitarian aid to New Orleans right after Katrina - not just offered it, actually sent it, and personnel to distribute it. Other countries may have done as well, Mexico's the only one I know for a fact did. Also, Mexican authorities provided various help to Americans stranded in Mexico just after 9/11, when no planes were flying in US airspace.
Americans are generous. The American government is not. Some people do tar all Americans with the same brush, but overall Americans are massively better than their government.
Of course, the French are no angels. My point was that countries that receive more aid from France than from the US are, rationally enough, likely to be more pro-French than pro-American.
_________________
I am the steppenwolf that never learned to dance. (Sedaka)
El hombre es una bestia famélica, envidiosa e insaciable. (Francisco Tario)
I'm male by the way (yes, I know my avatar is misleading).
Well, as a few examples, European far leftists don't like our freedom of speech, many Muslims don't like our equality for women and unchasteness of our culture, countries like China certainly don't like our political freedom. To these people, we are an example of things that they hate that not only works but works very well, and thus present living contradiction of their dogma. That is what I meant by people hating us for our freedoms.
If you want to put it in those terms, if some other country legalized kiddie porn and drugs, we would hate them for their 'freedom' .... the Europeans get touchy about things like nazi memorabilia and hate speech, and their idea of political freedom should sanction such activities.
Ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel harass women that they think are wearing unchaste or immodest clothing... many religious conservatives in this country rant against Hollywood and they picket against adult entertainment. That type of stuff is not new, not a surprise at all.
I'm fully in support of legalizing drugs, and many Americans are just as sick of the drug war as I am, if not so radical in how they want to fix it. In order to legalize kiddy porn you'd have to legalize child rape, and I don't know who wouldn't have a problem with that, it's hardly the same thing as freedom of speech or religion. Freedom of speech has to encompass everything, otherwise it's susceptible to exploitation by those in power at the moment. Nazi stuff may be "hateful" now, but down the road the same legal framework can be used to stifle anti-government speech, to name but one example. Better to give the crazies the rope to hang themselves with than to give the government the noose to hang everybody.
So what if Jews in Israel are harassing each other, they are not calling for the destruction of the Western world as a corrupting influence like many of the Muslim extremists are. The religious groups in America doing the picketing and such disagree with me, and our political system allows for that. Our constitution is our safeguard against religious or other extremists from dragging this country too far off course, and it generally does a pretty good job of that.
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Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.
- Rick Sanchez
Canada did in both circumstances. Our wonderfully Newfoundlanders hosted tens of thousands of people stranded after 9/11.
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Chibi_Neko
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