President Donald Trump!

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AspE
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02 Mar 2016, 10:21 am

Jacoby wrote:

It's case in point talking to people on here everyday who keep repeating the whatever garbage media narrative of the day, I hope some people read what I say and think about how they are being manipulated and what is truly in the interest of America. CNN lies, Fox News lies, the New York Times lies, they are all owned by these multinational corporations that will not advocate against their own best interest and that is who controls the flow of information. I know some people read my posts and agree with me, they've PM'd me and said as much.

if that comment was directed at me, :lol:

then what does that make all of you?

And you believe Trump's garbage, what's the difference?[/quote]

Perhaps you should listen to people much smarter than you when it comes to subjects you know very little about[/quote]
I do, but I don't see how that applies here. Trump advocates for his own interests, which are those of the rich. He's worse than an establishment politician, who are at least answerable to their lobbyists.

Jacoby
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02 Mar 2016, 10:29 am

AspE wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

AspE wrote:

And you believe Trump's garbage, what's the difference?

Perhaps you should listen to people much smarter than you when it comes to subjects you know very little about

I do, but I don't see how that applies here. Trump advocates for his own interests, which are those of the rich. He's worse than an establishment politician, who are at least answerable to their lobbyists.

What is he advocating for that is for his own interests? Is it not the rich of this country that want open borders, it is not the rich that want to push down American wages and quality of life while sacrificing nothing, is it not the rich that ALWAYS profit off these never ending wars? These people don't live in our world and care nothing about the consequences of their decisions, it is all the bottom line never mind if your populace's QOL falls to that of the third world and find itself in constant strife against one another because that's preferable to them turning their attention on the real criminals that have ripped off this country. Trump is answerable to America, to the voters, not to any moneyed special interest that owns every other candidate.

Trump would of been much better off personally if he never entered the race and continued to give money to the power players because its quid pro quo and that's how politics works. They've attacked his brand, they've attacked him as a person, they'll attack his family, he doesn't have to be doing this and can just go back to building more buildings and making more billions if he wanted to.

AspE
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02 Mar 2016, 10:37 am

Jacoby, you sound just like David Duke:

"...The top seven Super PACs of Hillary Clinton are all Jewish Zionists. No wonder she’s always supported these insane wars for Israel in the Middle East orchestrated by neocons for the interests of Israel rather than America. We have the same thing going on with the Republican Party today. The only person who has stepped out of that agenda has been Donald Trump..."

Jacoby
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02 Mar 2016, 10:46 am

AspE wrote:

While it is interesting that you do so much research on David Duke, a broken clock is right twice a day. It's like saying because Hitler liked dogs so all dogs are bad, it's just stupid mind manipulation.

ASPartOfMe
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02 Mar 2016, 11:48 am

Jacoby wrote:

so Trump is a "bully" because he's said some not nice things about Megyn Kelly and Jeb Bush boohoo

but somehow Hillary isn't a bully for personally shaming and threatening Bubba's rape victims into silence

it's just such nonsense, you people cannot discuss the issues that you are claiming Trump can't talk about. Trump has the clearest platform of anybody running, what is Hillary Clinton running on? Marco Rubio? Hillary tried her 'girl power' garbage and failed now, tried this failed America's grandma thing that she got blasted for, and now she's all for 'love and kindness' for the idiots who don't pay attention.

Lets have Hillary talk about the borders, trade, the wars, and jobs; she's been soul sister #1 for a while now with her ridiculous pandering to the black community which Sanders tried to match but the establishment Congressional Black Caucus has been decisive. Hillary is just such a fraud, the complete opposite campaign she ran in 2008 when she was deprived the minority vote so this time is supposed to be a coronation and the DNC. She has to repudiate everything she and her husband stood for, she was one of if not they worst Secretary of State's of all time, she's under FBI investigation, she has no qualifications and is not fit for office.

He is not a bully because of what he says. but how he says it yes that definitely included constant mocking tone of and satarical tone of voice. He said "I disavow" 20 times about David Duke but it came off as dismissive, not sincere like "Ok I disavow, whatever". I have my body language disabilities. That does not mean inability. I miss the subtle stuff but Trump's body language is not subtle at all. Trump is a combination of behaviors of nearly every bully I have had the misfortune to come in contact with in my nearly six decades on this earth.

I am not talking about Hilary's problems much because this is a Trump thread.

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Jacoby
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02 Mar 2016, 12:08 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

I'd hope you'd make your decisions on who to vote for on more than just "tone" and understand that this is a political campaign. Of course it was dismissive, it's ridiculous that Trump is even being asked about David Duke let alone 500 times over the last couple days. David Duke hasn't been relevant in 25 years and all the sudden he's all the news can talk about the day before Super Tuesday? Come on, you have to admit that is some media trickery. It's just a straight up lie to say Trump didn't disavow the endorsement(which he shouldn't have to) or repudiate the KKK which he has done many times before and since this interview, it's just an attempted media hit job.

I like the way Donald talks, maybe we were raised in different eras and different places but he reminds of the people that I come from and that's how we talk to each other. Maybe I didn't go to church enough on Sunday, maybe I went to some rough schools, I come from a working class background. It's not bullying, bustin' balls isn't supposed to be taken with the utmost seriousness and I would say it's valuable skill to have for us on the spectrum if you can take it and give it back. There has been no greater joy in my political life than seeing Trump decimate the Bush family and all the fake conservative talking heads, these people don't deserve any reverence for what they have done to this country and I think angry tone is appropriate and you have to fight fire with fire because if Trump wasn't the bombast that he was the media would be successful in their branding of him and his candidacy would of died before it ever got started. I don't know about you guys but it's hard not to scream at the TV watching these debates, they're completely pointless at this point other than to launch desperate grenades at the front runner. It is coming to point that Trump should start focusing his attention on Hillary Clinton, we already saw the damage he did to her when she called him sexist and I look forward to him taking the Clinton's just like he took the Bush family and GOP establishment.

Kraichgauer
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02 Mar 2016, 12:46 pm

CommanderKeen wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

B19 wrote:

I read a lot of the international Western media, Kraftie - commentary from the UK, Germany, France, Australia and of course New Zealand - and there is a common thread of genuine bafflement at present as to why a substantial proportion of the American voting public would want to see a man who is a known bully with very substantial signs of a cluster B personality disorder (NPD) elected as president of the United States.

Though you need a strong stomach to even skim through Trump's "The Art of the Deal", one piece of alarming self-aggrandizement in it is the pride he still takes from punching his music teacher in the face as a young child - he was a bully then, he is a bully now, why would America want to see a bully with NPD in the White House?

In another thread, we have been discussing the Roosevelts, and in the 1940s and 1950s the USA was universally admired in the free world as standing for the values which the Western allies (with the exception of Stalin) stood for. Now the USA is seen as an increasingly insular outlier whose values are corrupt. This change did not happen overnight, nor is Trump solely responsible for the raised eyebrows around the world, though recently he has done more to bring the USA into disrepute than anyone, and that is just as a political contender. I know from my own many travels there that over the past four decades, ordinary citizens of the USA have become increasingly indifferent to their international reputation, and perhaps what we are facing in the future is the total breakdown of all the postwar political alliances which were vested in the protection of freedoms from demagogues.

Looking at the big picture internationally, that is a concerning trend - at least to my way of thinking. I know there are many very nice citizens of the USA who still believe in the Four Freedoms, but the rot is nevertheless spreading to what seems to be dangerously approaching a critical mass.

I visited the USA off and on over 40 years and experienced the cultural changes on each occasion, my last visit was 9 years ago and it saddened me a lot to see the changes over that time, none of which were for the better IMO.. once the most courteous country in the world - everyone was so well mannered there in my first visit in 1976 - I was astonished at how this had almost disappeared completely during my last visit. And now Trump personifies that shift in some way. It's all sad and baffling to me..and very depressing.

I and others have discussed various reasons for his popularity. I do think those that focus just on issues are missing a lot. It is a mantra on this board that NT's are people who are wired to not say what they mean especially not to hurt feelings. Yet nearly every Trump voter I have seen say they are voting for him because he says what he means. I also do think a lot of Trump voters are voting for him because he is a bully like them. They were bullies back in the day when bullying was considered a normal part of growing up and if you could not suck it up it was your fault because you were weak. As adults they can get arrested for bullying behavoir and in the last few decades bullying behavoirs were looked down upon and in many cases using words that sounded offensive could get you fired. Trump comes along and bullies the establishment that they percieve caused the country to become a country of "scared wimps" promising to make the country "great again" meaning they will be allowed to put the weaklings in thier place. This "explanation" should not discount the anger that the same estsblishment instead of punishing the people that caused seemingly permenent damage to economy bailed them out.

Summing up the Trump voters have identified real problems. It is thier solution that is toxic in combination with no real alternatives. If America becomes a totalitarian state where the population cheers a strong leader putting the weak in thier place because they were convinced these others ruined the country we will join a loooong list.

I hate bullies; explains why I can't stand Trump. Or Cruz.

You should hate Hilary too, by that logic. Notice I didn't say Bernie. I actually LIKE Bernie as a person, but not as a president.

I never said I was particularly fond of Clinton, but I prefer her to Trump.

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ASPartOfMe
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02 Mar 2016, 2:27 pm

Jacoby wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Charactor is important, just as many Trump supporters are voting for him based on his personality I can decide not to vote for him based on personality. I would hate to see him act like a 12 year old braggart when negotiating with Putin or the Chinese. Yeah we "busted balls" in our day and used that exact term, but we did not do it while representing our school or employer.

Lets assume it is all an act designed to get votes a very probable possibility and when he is in office he is fine. I can not ignore what the forces he is deliberately unleashing in order to get votes. History and our current world is replete with instances of horrific results from cult of personality leaders who use the real issues and suffering to successfully whip up a frenzy by creating boogymen or more accuratly boogy groups. He says sarcastically "I disavow" Duke because he knows the racist voters he is appealing to will view his sarcasm as saying yeah he is one of us. Same idea with the "temporary" ban on refugees from "certain" Muslim countries (San Bernadino and Paris were the best things that happened for his campaign). Whether he is bigoted himself is irrevelent. Then when his supporters do something really bad he will claim innocence.

Jacoby
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02 Mar 2016, 7:25 pm

The Chinese and Russians will respect Trump, there are many leaders like Trump in the world and some have been bad and some have been good. He's the only person with any diplomatic or negotiating skills, Trump does it from a position of strength which is something the US should do as well. He isn't going to roll over for his opposition or his enemies like Marco Rubio or some establishment Republican would. Trump has made billions of dollars, he didn't do it by being Kim Jong-Un the real estate developer but rather by negotiating and making deals. Hillary is screaming she wants to continue all Obama's policies which is really just cynical ploy to win over the black vote, his foreign policy which is Hillary's foreign policy has been nothing sort of a disaster and the world is a much more dangerous place for them being in power.

B19
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02 Mar 2016, 7:50 pm

"He's the only person with any diplomatic or negotiating skills". (Quote - Jacoby.

This statement strikes me as exceedingly bizarre.

1) Trump has diplomatic skills
2) Trump uses diplomatic skills
3) Only Trump has any diplomatic skills

Enlighten me (without reference to Trump for a moment) - how do you define diplomatic skills and what meaning do you attach to the word 'diplomacy'?

In my understanding, tact and respectful acknowledgment of differing viewpoints are two of several essential elements of diplomacy. Watch "You've Been Trumped" or any debate Trump has participated in during this electoral contest and point out to me the diplomatic parts of Trump which I obviously missed. His style in YBT was unrelentingly to insult, persecute and steamroll anyone who disagreed with his plans with all the sensitivity of a narcissistic completely self-centred bulldozer, indifferent to any concerns for well-being whatsoever except his own.

kraftiekortie
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02 Mar 2016, 7:57 pm

If he had considerable diplomatic skills, the English Parliament would not have considered banning him from entering the UK.

He is seen, by many people, as a person with little class, a hair-trigger temper, and just somebody with whom they don't want to associate.

His election would bring the US down a few notches when it comes time to bargain with the world.

auntblabby
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02 Mar 2016, 8:02 pm

cruz would be 10 times worse.

Jacoby
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02 Mar 2016, 8:13 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Who cares who the parliament of the UK wants as our president? Their whole ban threat was a total joke especially considering how many of their own citizens are being radicalized and fighting for ISIS. The UK has a serious security problem, I don't want that same problem and maybe that's not politically correct for somebody in the UK to say but tell me how it has been a net positive in any way?

The UK has it's own Donald Trump, look up Boris Johnson who may condemn Trump for his criticisms of his country but is the same bombast that he is with the hair to boot. He is leading the UK campaign to leave the European Union right now, perhaps one day the UK can graduate from being a protectorate, if they do he will more than likely be the next Prime Minister. They can't judge us at all and besides, they do not act independently of the US so its is pointless. Everybody will fall in line when they need to fall in line. There are going to be some big changes in Europe by 2020, trust me.

We don't need to negotiate peace between the US and Europe, we need someone that can bridge the divide between the US and our "enemies" and Trump is the only person in either party that will make that happen with Russia which is the important bilateral relationship in the world even 2016. All these other countries have leaders just like Trump, they have policies just like Trump, do you think the Japanese or South Koreans would allow their manufacturing base to be stolen away? Hell no.

beneficii
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02 Mar 2016, 8:52 pm

If you can't beat him, join him. As the convention nears, I could see Trump starting to play nice with the establishment, letting them know that if he's the nominee he can make the arrangement mutually beneficial and most of the GOP would probably give in, thinking they can control him. We would then see if that is the case.

So here is how the GOP might try to stop Trump, and why it's unlikely to work:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... ?tid=a_inl

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02 Mar 2016, 10:13 pm

Can't stump the Trump!! ! This is a whole F u to the establishment from the middle class that have been getting screwed over and over by the elites of this country. It's funny how main stream media and the establishment are running coordinated attacks on Trump and failing.

Jacoby
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02 Mar 2016, 10:28 pm

beneficii has a good understanding of what is going on as far the election goes, just thought I'd give someone credit for doing their homework after someone said I was saying being too negative towards others.

Once Trump has all but secured the nomination which will happen in about 2 weeks, the train will be leaving the station and the establishment players will either get on or move out of the way. Trump has been winning endorsements from establishment figures who see the writing on the wall, politicians are politicians and are ultimately are swayed by public opinion they can't betray their constituents who the plurality of support Trump for the nomination.

General election Trump will move towards the center, he's not stupid and knows how to play to his audience. He's been running sort of a general election campaign this entire time for the people paying attention considering his non-traditional Republican views when to a whole host of issues. He'll ruthlessly destroy Hillary and while positioning himself as a candidate that can appeal to Republicans, Democrats, and independents.

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