President Donald Trump!
10 Mar 2016, 1:51 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If that's true, I have to wonder how his followers will react if it turns out all his crazy talk is just performance art, which means no ban on Muslim immigrants, no massive deportations of illegals, no wall that Mexico pays for, no end to Obamacare (just renaming it Trumpcare), etc.
I imagine it will be similar to the progressive reaction to Obama breaking all of his campaign promises, maybe with more yelling and funnier clothes.
The only difference is, Obama naively caved in on his ideals for the sake of the naive fantasy of bipartisan cooperation. That, and the job diminished those ideals. But I think what he believed in was real at the beginning of his first term. Trump has been accused of promising the Republican elites that he's just playing the rubes for the sake of riding in on their bigotry and ignorance.
He didn't cave in - he just didn't get what he wanted so he pulled his little executive orders crap around Congress like a pansy. That's the only way he can get what he wants pushed through is by illegally going around Congress. He wants bipartisanship my ass - it's his lordship's way or the highway. I'm sure he's going to do even more damage before we can kick King Asswipe out on his butt.
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10 Mar 2016, 1:53 am
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If that's true, I have to wonder how his followers will react if it turns out all his crazy talk is just performance art, which means no ban on Muslim immigrants, no massive deportations of illegals, no wall that Mexico pays for, no end to Obamacare (just renaming it Trumpcare), etc.
I imagine it will be similar to the progressive reaction to Obama breaking all of his campaign promises, maybe with more yelling and funnier clothes.
Didn't he break his promises though because his ideas got voted down so he wasn't able to do them because they wouldn't let him?
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Jacoby
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10 Mar 2016, 2:08 am
League_Girl wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If that's true, I have to wonder how his followers will react if it turns out all his crazy talk is just performance art, which means no ban on Muslim immigrants, no massive deportations of illegals, no wall that Mexico pays for, no end to Obamacare (just renaming it Trumpcare), etc.
I imagine it will be similar to the progressive reaction to Obama breaking all of his campaign promises, maybe with more yelling and funnier clothes.
Didn't he break his promises though because his ideas got voted down so he wasn't able to do them because they wouldn't let him?
Mind you Obama was elected along with supermajorities in the House and Senate, I would say Obama misrepresented himself as a candidate in 2008 who talked about returning to a constitutional government, ending the wars overseas, and bringing transparency to Washington.
Kraichgauer
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10 Mar 2016, 2:22 am
nurseangela wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If that's true, I have to wonder how his followers will react if it turns out all his crazy talk is just performance art, which means no ban on Muslim immigrants, no massive deportations of illegals, no wall that Mexico pays for, no end to Obamacare (just renaming it Trumpcare), etc.
I imagine it will be similar to the progressive reaction to Obama breaking all of his campaign promises, maybe with more yelling and funnier clothes.
The only difference is, Obama naively caved in on his ideals for the sake of the naive fantasy of bipartisan cooperation. That, and the job diminished those ideals. But I think what he believed in was real at the beginning of his first term. Trump has been accused of promising the Republican elites that he's just playing the rubes for the sake of riding in on their bigotry and ignorance.
He didn't cave in - he just didn't get what he wanted so he pulled his little executive orders crap around Congress like a pansy. That's the only way he can get what he wants pushed through is by illegally going around Congress. He wants bipartisanship my ass - it's his lordship's way or the highway. I'm sure he's going to do even more damage before we can kick King Asswipe out on his butt.
Fact: The Republican party and congressional leadership had met together when Obama was first sworn in, in order to devise a way to hinder the new President on everything and anything. They had no interest that their actions would possibly harm the country; they were only concerned about the next Presidential election. That is why the President has had to resort to executive orders; because there was absolutely no other way for him to accomplish anything, since they had determined to oppose him on everything. And yes, he did cave in to the GOP for the sake of bi-partisanship, as what we today call Obamacare had started life as a Republican plan. He went with this hoping that the congressional Republicans would play along, rather than establishing universal healthcare. Republicans are just more interested in keeping healthcare away from poor people because they think said poor people are somehow taking advantage of the tax payers, and oppose gay rights because they would rather see gay Americans as deviants and abominations that citizens deserving of equality, and are more interested in suppressing voters of the "wrong color" because Republicans are unable to convert them to the conservative cause.
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Jacoby
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10 Mar 2016, 2:38 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If that's true, I have to wonder how his followers will react if it turns out all his crazy talk is just performance art, which means no ban on Muslim immigrants, no massive deportations of illegals, no wall that Mexico pays for, no end to Obamacare (just renaming it Trumpcare), etc.
I imagine it will be similar to the progressive reaction to Obama breaking all of his campaign promises, maybe with more yelling and funnier clothes.
The only difference is, Obama naively caved in on his ideals for the sake of the naive fantasy of bipartisan cooperation. That, and the job diminished those ideals. But I think what he believed in was real at the beginning of his first term. Trump has been accused of promising the Republican elites that he's just playing the rubes for the sake of riding in on their bigotry and ignorance.
He didn't cave in - he just didn't get what he wanted so he pulled his little executive orders crap around Congress like a pansy. That's the only way he can get what he wants pushed through is by illegally going around Congress. He wants bipartisanship my ass - it's his lordship's way or the highway. I'm sure he's going to do even more damage before we can kick King Asswipe out on his butt.
Fact: The Republican party and congressional leadership had met together when Obama was first sworn in, in order to devise a way to hinder the new President on everything and anything. They had no interest that their actions would possibly harm the country; they were only concerned about the next Presidential election. That is why the President has had to resort to executive orders; because there was absolutely no other way for him to accomplish anything, since they had determined to oppose him on everything. And yes, he did cave in to the GOP for the sake of bi-partisanship, as what we today call Obamacare had started life as a Republican plan. He went with this hoping that the congressional Republicans would play along, rather than establishing universal healthcare. Republicans are just more interested in keeping healthcare away from poor people because they think said poor people are somehow taking advantage of the tax payers, and oppose gay rights because they would rather see gay Americans as deviants and abominations that citizens deserving of equality, and are more interested in suppressing voters of the "wrong color" because Republicans are unable to convert them to the conservative cause.
False, Obama was elected with Democratic supermajorities and he squandered it on a massive payoff to the insurance industry. Maybe you can blame people in his own party, maybe Rahm Emanuel if you want to get specific but Republicans were completely out of power after Obama took office.
Kraichgauer
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10 Mar 2016, 2:57 am
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If that's true, I have to wonder how his followers will react if it turns out all his crazy talk is just performance art, which means no ban on Muslim immigrants, no massive deportations of illegals, no wall that Mexico pays for, no end to Obamacare (just renaming it Trumpcare), etc.
I imagine it will be similar to the progressive reaction to Obama breaking all of his campaign promises, maybe with more yelling and funnier clothes.
The only difference is, Obama naively caved in on his ideals for the sake of the naive fantasy of bipartisan cooperation. That, and the job diminished those ideals. But I think what he believed in was real at the beginning of his first term. Trump has been accused of promising the Republican elites that he's just playing the rubes for the sake of riding in on their bigotry and ignorance.
He didn't cave in - he just didn't get what he wanted so he pulled his little executive orders crap around Congress like a pansy. That's the only way he can get what he wants pushed through is by illegally going around Congress. He wants bipartisanship my ass - it's his lordship's way or the highway. I'm sure he's going to do even more damage before we can kick King Asswipe out on his butt.
Fact: The Republican party and congressional leadership had met together when Obama was first sworn in, in order to devise a way to hinder the new President on everything and anything. They had no interest that their actions would possibly harm the country; they were only concerned about the next Presidential election. That is why the President has had to resort to executive orders; because there was absolutely no other way for him to accomplish anything, since they had determined to oppose him on everything. And yes, he did cave in to the GOP for the sake of bi-partisanship, as what we today call Obamacare had started life as a Republican plan. He went with this hoping that the congressional Republicans would play along, rather than establishing universal healthcare. Republicans are just more interested in keeping healthcare away from poor people because they think said poor people are somehow taking advantage of the tax payers, and oppose gay rights because they would rather see gay Americans as deviants and abominations that citizens deserving of equality, and are more interested in suppressing voters of the "wrong color" because Republicans are unable to convert them to the conservative cause.
False, Obama was elected with Democratic supermajorities and he squandered it on a massive payoff to the insurance industry. Maybe you can blame people in his own party, maybe Rahm Emanuel if you want to get specific but Republicans were completely out of power after Obama took office.
Regardless, congressional Republicans had set up road blocks to everything Obama had tried to accomplish, even enlisting so called yellow dog Democrats, with threats of turning conservative constituencies against them, to oppose the President. But, sure, Emanuel was not much help to Obama, as he got everyone on both sides of the aisle to hate him. By the way, that payoff to the insurance industry was one of the compromises Obama thought would help him to naively ingratiate himself with the Republicans, as it was the GOP who had always represented big insurance in the past.
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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
10 Mar 2016, 3:55 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If that's true, I have to wonder how his followers will react if it turns out all his crazy talk is just performance art, which means no ban on Muslim immigrants, no massive deportations of illegals, no wall that Mexico pays for, no end to Obamacare (just renaming it Trumpcare), etc.
I imagine it will be similar to the progressive reaction to Obama breaking all of his campaign promises, maybe with more yelling and funnier clothes.
The only difference is, Obama naively caved in on his ideals for the sake of the naive fantasy of bipartisan cooperation. That, and the job diminished those ideals. But I think what he believed in was real at the beginning of his first term. Trump has been accused of promising the Republican elites that he's just playing the rubes for the sake of riding in on their bigotry and ignorance.
He didn't cave in - he just didn't get what he wanted so he pulled his little executive orders crap around Congress like a pansy. That's the only way he can get what he wants pushed through is by illegally going around Congress. He wants bipartisanship my ass - it's his lordship's way or the highway. I'm sure he's going to do even more damage before we can kick King Asswipe out on his butt.
Fact: The Republican party and congressional leadership had met together when Obama was first sworn in, in order to devise a way to hinder the new President on everything and anything. They had no interest that their actions would possibly harm the country; they were only concerned about the next Presidential election. That is why the President has had to resort to executive orders; because there was absolutely no other way for him to accomplish anything, since they had determined to oppose him on everything. And yes, he did cave in to the GOP for the sake of bi-partisanship, as what we today call Obamacare had started life as a Republican plan. He went with this hoping that the congressional Republicans would play along, rather than establishing universal healthcare. Republicans are just more interested in keeping healthcare away from poor people because they think said poor people are somehow taking advantage of the tax payers, and oppose gay rights because they would rather see gay Americans as deviants and abominations that citizens deserving of equality, and are more interested in suppressing voters of the "wrong color" because Republicans are unable to convert them to the conservative cause.
False, Obama was elected with Democratic supermajorities and he squandered it on a massive payoff to the insurance industry. Maybe you can blame people in his own party, maybe Rahm Emanuel if you want to get specific but Republicans were completely out of power after Obama took office.
Regardless, congressional Republicans had set up road blocks to everything Obama had tried to accomplish, even enlisting so called yellow dog Democrats, with threats of turning conservative constituencies against them, to oppose the President. But, sure, Emanuel was not much help to Obama, as he got everyone on both sides of the aisle to hate him. By the way, that payoff to the insurance industry was one of the compromises Obama thought would help him to naively ingratiate himself with the Republicans, as it was the GOP who had always represented big insurance in the past.
What?! Regardless. Regardless?! Jacoby proves you wrong and your answer is REGARDLESS?! This is what I'm talking about when I say you people on the Left just spout oft crap saying it's FACT when it isn't! I'm never giving any explanation for anything I say anymore. Why should I? You guys seem to say whatever is on the top of your head and say it so matter of fact that your normal layperson isn't going to question anything. That's what the Left does. Regurgitating crap that isn't even true - just something they heard from another person on the Left who was spewing lies but sounded like they knew what they were talking about. No proof, no backup that what they were saying was true. NOTHING. From here on out, I'm not believing one damn thing that is said from the Left unless there is proof - NOTHING!
_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.
Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.
Kraichgauer
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Posts: 48,712
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Mar 2016, 6:15 am
nurseangela wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If that's true, I have to wonder how his followers will react if it turns out all his crazy talk is just performance art, which means no ban on Muslim immigrants, no massive deportations of illegals, no wall that Mexico pays for, no end to Obamacare (just renaming it Trumpcare), etc.
I imagine it will be similar to the progressive reaction to Obama breaking all of his campaign promises, maybe with more yelling and funnier clothes.
The only difference is, Obama naively caved in on his ideals for the sake of the naive fantasy of bipartisan cooperation. That, and the job diminished those ideals. But I think what he believed in was real at the beginning of his first term. Trump has been accused of promising the Republican elites that he's just playing the rubes for the sake of riding in on their bigotry and ignorance.
He didn't cave in - he just didn't get what he wanted so he pulled his little executive orders crap around Congress like a pansy. That's the only way he can get what he wants pushed through is by illegally going around Congress. He wants bipartisanship my ass - it's his lordship's way or the highway. I'm sure he's going to do even more damage before we can kick King Asswipe out on his butt.
Fact: The Republican party and congressional leadership had met together when Obama was first sworn in, in order to devise a way to hinder the new President on everything and anything. They had no interest that their actions would possibly harm the country; they were only concerned about the next Presidential election. That is why the President has had to resort to executive orders; because there was absolutely no other way for him to accomplish anything, since they had determined to oppose him on everything. And yes, he did cave in to the GOP for the sake of bi-partisanship, as what we today call Obamacare had started life as a Republican plan. He went with this hoping that the congressional Republicans would play along, rather than establishing universal healthcare. Republicans are just more interested in keeping healthcare away from poor people because they think said poor people are somehow taking advantage of the tax payers, and oppose gay rights because they would rather see gay Americans as deviants and abominations that citizens deserving of equality, and are more interested in suppressing voters of the "wrong color" because Republicans are unable to convert them to the conservative cause.
False, Obama was elected with Democratic supermajorities and he squandered it on a massive payoff to the insurance industry. Maybe you can blame people in his own party, maybe Rahm Emanuel if you want to get specific but Republicans were completely out of power after Obama took office.
Regardless, congressional Republicans had set up road blocks to everything Obama had tried to accomplish, even enlisting so called yellow dog Democrats, with threats of turning conservative constituencies against them, to oppose the President. But, sure, Emanuel was not much help to Obama, as he got everyone on both sides of the aisle to hate him. By the way, that payoff to the insurance industry was one of the compromises Obama thought would help him to naively ingratiate himself with the Republicans, as it was the GOP who had always represented big insurance in the past.
What?! Regardless. Regardless?! Jacoby proves you wrong and your answer is REGARDLESS?! This is what I'm talking about when I say you people on the Left just spout oft crap saying it's FACT when it isn't! I'm never giving any explanation for anything I say anymore. Why should I? You guys seem to say whatever is on the top of your head and say it so matter of fact that your normal layperson isn't going to question anything. That's what the Left does. Regurgitating crap that isn't even true - just something they heard from another person on the Left who was spewing lies but sounded like they knew what they were talking about. No proof, no backup that what they were saying was true. NOTHING. From here on out, I'm not believing one damn thing that is said from the Left unless there is proof - NOTHING!
Don't believe me, then. I'm seriously not going to lose any sleep over it. But contrary to what the right has led you to believe, things weren't ever simple and straight forward with the President's relationship with congress. Even with a Democratic majority, Republicans had wrangled enough conservative Democrats with fear of the voters in their conservative leaning districts to vote against Obama's policies.
And if you want regurgitated crap, just turn on Fox, or read Breitbart.
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Jacoby
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10 Mar 2016, 10:18 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Regardless, congressional Republicans had set up road blocks to everything Obama had tried to accomplish, even enlisting so called yellow dog Democrats, with threats of turning conservative constituencies against them, to oppose the President. But, sure, Emanuel was not much help to Obama, as he got everyone on both sides of the aisle to hate him. By the way, that payoff to the insurance industry was one of the compromises Obama thought would help him to naively ingratiate himself with the Republicans, as it was the GOP who had always represented big insurance in the past.
I would say that Obama is a incompetent leader negotiating against himself then, I don't believe that is what happened. What was decided was based on past efforts was that single payer was not politically feasible, the healthcare industry rallied behind Obama in the 2008 after years of leaning more towards the GOP so they owed some people some favors and apparently Rahm Emanuel(who would be one of the more conservative but also pugnacious voices in the Democratic party) who was Obama's chief of staff at the time IIRC thought it would be better to go with this more "conservative" plan and not seek any Republican support as they did not need it and thought they could use the issue to hurt Republicans. I think they expected the law to have much broader public support and that it wouldn't turn out to be as big of a fight as it was, perhaps they naively thought they peel off like 10 Republicans since it wouldn't matter and call it bipartisan but it literally destroyed Obama's presidency and if I was an Obama supporter I would not feel like it was worth it in retrospect. They misread his victory and initial personal popularity as progressive mandate, it wasn't.
10 Mar 2016, 12:02 pm
Jacoby wrote:
I would say that Obama is a incompetent leader negotiating against himself then
Calling obama incompetent is like calling marquis de sade someone who was a little naughty.
Dont forget the man created and to this day arms islamist extremists in libya and syria.
No offense.
10 Mar 2016, 12:19 pm
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... /obameter/
Have fun. Apologies if posted already. I wonder if such a thing has been done for past presidents and how well he measures up against them.
Kraichgauer
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Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Mar 2016, 2:25 pm
Suumsuique wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I would say that Obama is a incompetent leader negotiating against himself then
Calling obama incompetent is like calling marquis de sade someone who was a little naughty.
Dont forget the man created and to this day arms islamist extremists in libya and syria.
No offense.
I seem to recall how a Certain President Dubya had released the Islamic extremist genie from the bottle with his unprovoked war in Iraq. From there, that cancer spread all over the region like wildfire.
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Kraichgauer
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10 Mar 2016, 2:30 pm
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Regardless, congressional Republicans had set up road blocks to everything Obama had tried to accomplish, even enlisting so called yellow dog Democrats, with threats of turning conservative constituencies against them, to oppose the President. But, sure, Emanuel was not much help to Obama, as he got everyone on both sides of the aisle to hate him. By the way, that payoff to the insurance industry was one of the compromises Obama thought would help him to naively ingratiate himself with the Republicans, as it was the GOP who had always represented big insurance in the past.
I would say that Obama is a incompetent leader negotiating against himself then, I don't believe that is what happened. What was decided was based on past efforts was that single payer was not politically feasible, the healthcare industry rallied behind Obama in the 2008 after years of leaning more towards the GOP so they owed some people some favors and apparently Rahm Emanuel(who would be one of the more conservative but also pugnacious voices in the Democratic party) who was Obama's chief of staff at the time IIRC thought it would be better to go with this more "conservative" plan and not seek any Republican support as they did not need it and thought they could use the issue to hurt Republicans. I think they expected the law to have much broader public support and that it wouldn't turn out to be as big of a fight as it was, perhaps they naively thought they peel off like 10 Republicans since it wouldn't matter and call it bipartisan but it literally destroyed Obama's presidency and if I was an Obama supporter I would not feel like it was worth it in retrospect. They misread his victory and initial personal popularity as progressive mandate, it wasn't.
I never said Obama was perfect - he's a politician, after all. And making use of Emanuel was never one of the highlights of his Presidency. But there is no escaping the truth of the matter that his flawed healthcare plan was a Republican one. Where is the condemnation of the GOP for this?
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Jacoby
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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10 Mar 2016, 3:25 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Regardless, congressional Republicans had set up road blocks to everything Obama had tried to accomplish, even enlisting so called yellow dog Democrats, with threats of turning conservative constituencies against them, to oppose the President. But, sure, Emanuel was not much help to Obama, as he got everyone on both sides of the aisle to hate him. By the way, that payoff to the insurance industry was one of the compromises Obama thought would help him to naively ingratiate himself with the Republicans, as it was the GOP who had always represented big insurance in the past.
I would say that Obama is a incompetent leader negotiating against himself then, I don't believe that is what happened. What was decided was based on past efforts was that single payer was not politically feasible, the healthcare industry rallied behind Obama in the 2008 after years of leaning more towards the GOP so they owed some people some favors and apparently Rahm Emanuel(who would be one of the more conservative but also pugnacious voices in the Democratic party) who was Obama's chief of staff at the time IIRC thought it would be better to go with this more "conservative" plan and not seek any Republican support as they did not need it and thought they could use the issue to hurt Republicans. I think they expected the law to have much broader public support and that it wouldn't turn out to be as big of a fight as it was, perhaps they naively thought they peel off like 10 Republicans since it wouldn't matter and call it bipartisan but it literally destroyed Obama's presidency and if I was an Obama supporter I would not feel like it was worth it in retrospect. They misread his victory and initial personal popularity as progressive mandate, it wasn't.
I never said Obama was perfect - he's a politician, after all. And making use of Emanuel was never one of the highlights of his Presidency. But there is no escaping the truth of the matter that his flawed healthcare plan was a Republican one. Where is the condemnation of the GOP for this?
Well ultimately it is his healthcare plan and his main legacy a president but I don't think you'll see me defending the likes of Newt Gingrich or Mitt Romney any time soon, I'm not a Heritage Foundation guy.
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
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Posts: 48,712
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Mar 2016, 3:34 pm
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Regardless, congressional Republicans had set up road blocks to everything Obama had tried to accomplish, even enlisting so called yellow dog Democrats, with threats of turning conservative constituencies against them, to oppose the President. But, sure, Emanuel was not much help to Obama, as he got everyone on both sides of the aisle to hate him. By the way, that payoff to the insurance industry was one of the compromises Obama thought would help him to naively ingratiate himself with the Republicans, as it was the GOP who had always represented big insurance in the past.
I would say that Obama is a incompetent leader negotiating against himself then, I don't believe that is what happened. What was decided was based on past efforts was that single payer was not politically feasible, the healthcare industry rallied behind Obama in the 2008 after years of leaning more towards the GOP so they owed some people some favors and apparently Rahm Emanuel(who would be one of the more conservative but also pugnacious voices in the Democratic party) who was Obama's chief of staff at the time IIRC thought it would be better to go with this more "conservative" plan and not seek any Republican support as they did not need it and thought they could use the issue to hurt Republicans. I think they expected the law to have much broader public support and that it wouldn't turn out to be as big of a fight as it was, perhaps they naively thought they peel off like 10 Republicans since it wouldn't matter and call it bipartisan but it literally destroyed Obama's presidency and if I was an Obama supporter I would not feel like it was worth it in retrospect. They misread his victory and initial personal popularity as progressive mandate, it wasn't.
I never said Obama was perfect - he's a politician, after all. And making use of Emanuel was never one of the highlights of his Presidency. But there is no escaping the truth of the matter that his flawed healthcare plan was a Republican one. Where is the condemnation of the GOP for this?
Well ultimately it is his healthcare plan and his main legacy a president but I don't think you'll see me defending the likes of Newt Gingrich or Mitt Romney any time soon, I'm not a Heritage Foundation guy.
Obama's legacy will hopefully be a first step taken toward universal healthcare.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
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