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Kraichgauer
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19 Jul 2012, 9:55 pm

bizboy1 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Hey Bizboy - try reading The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair. It's the biggest reason you no longer find wedding rings and human fingers in your sausage today.


That's what the court system is for. Take them to court. Firms have an incentive to have safety standards. Sometimes there is a conflict of interest due to profits and bad business. (yes, businesses can make mistakes). A libertarian answer would be to create a market where individuals have numerous choices. A big selling point would to compare your product's superiority to the other. I'm sure this wasn't the case for what you are talking about. Consumers back then had little choice and information. When a firm pollutes or causes harm to an individual, you take them to court and they pay for the offense. If a product kills you, they should be sued or shut down by some lawful force.


And how long will it take for you to see your day in court? Big business' lawyers can drag their feet for years to keep it from going before a jury. And what if the judge is prejudiced in favor of the defendant due to class loyalties? And trust me, that had happened quite a lot before government regulation saved people. In the meantime, you could have medical bills piling up, or you or a loved one might even be dying because of corporate evil, while you wait for a justice that seems to be dwindling further and further away in the distance.
Beside, I thought you conservatives were planning to make it harder to sue big corporations.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You can blame government for slow procedure. That's why most businesses prefer private arbitration. And the rest of you're post is speculative or hypothetical.


How is it the government's fault? They're not the ones who get corporate lawyers to drag their feet to keep cases from coming to court. And how is private arbitration going to help consumers harmed by big business if big business doesn't want to settle or go to court? And how is the rest of what I had written speculative or hypothetical when people are faced with those obstacles every day when up against big capital?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



marshall
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19 Jul 2012, 9:56 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Hey Bizboy - try reading The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair. It's the biggest reason you no longer find wedding rings and human fingers in your sausage today.


That's what the court system is for. Take them to court. Firms have an incentive to have safety standards. Sometimes there is a conflict of interest due to profits and bad business. (yes, businesses can make mistakes). A libertarian answer would be to create a market where individuals have numerous choices. A big selling point would to compare your product's superiority to the other. I'm sure this wasn't the case for what you are talking about. Consumers back then had little choice and information. When a firm pollutes or causes harm to an individual, you take them to court and they pay for the offense. If a product kills you, they should be sued or shut down by some lawful force.


And how long will it take for you to see your day in court? Big business' lawyers can drag their feet for years to keep it from going before a jury. And what if the judge is prejudiced in favor of the defendant due to class loyalties? And trust me, that had happened quite a lot before government regulation saved people. In the meantime, you could have medical bills piling up, or you or a loved one might even be dying because of corporate evil, while you wait for a justice that seems to be dwindling further and further away in the distance.
Beside, I thought you conservatives were planning to make it harder to sue big corporations.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Don't worry, when justice fails in an anarcho-capitalist utopia, people will look to private hit men to knock off the as*holes. That or they will riot in mass numbers and burn unscrupulous businesses to the ground. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.



Kraichgauer
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19 Jul 2012, 10:01 pm

marshall wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Hey Bizboy - try reading The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair. It's the biggest reason you no longer find wedding rings and human fingers in your sausage today.


That's what the court system is for. Take them to court. Firms have an incentive to have safety standards. Sometimes there is a conflict of interest due to profits and bad business. (yes, businesses can make mistakes). A libertarian answer would be to create a market where individuals have numerous choices. A big selling point would to compare your product's superiority to the other. I'm sure this wasn't the case for what you are talking about. Consumers back then had little choice and information. When a firm pollutes or causes harm to an individual, you take them to court and they pay for the offense. If a product kills you, they should be sued or shut down by some lawful force.


And how long will it take for you to see your day in court? Big business' lawyers can drag their feet for years to keep it from going before a jury. And what if the judge is prejudiced in favor of the defendant due to class loyalties? And trust me, that had happened quite a lot before government regulation saved people. In the meantime, you could have medical bills piling up, or you or a loved one might even be dying because of corporate evil, while you wait for a justice that seems to be dwindling further and further away in the distance.
Beside, I thought you conservatives were planning to make it harder to sue big corporations.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Don't worry, when justice fails in an anarcho-capitalist utopia, people will look to private hit men to knock off the as*holes. That or they will riot in mass numbers and burn unscrupulous businesses to the ground. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.


I only fear that my hit man wouldn't be able to get through the army of hired Blackwater goons super rich businessmen would be protected by. Those same mercenaries probably in such an anarcho-capitalist utopia would be handling police work too, and so would mercilessly gun down the rioters.
And that's why we need the courts and the government to protect us. 8)

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



marshall
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19 Jul 2012, 10:03 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Hey Bizboy - try reading The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair. It's the biggest reason you no longer find wedding rings and human fingers in your sausage today.


That's what the court system is for. Take them to court. Firms have an incentive to have safety standards. Sometimes there is a conflict of interest due to profits and bad business. (yes, businesses can make mistakes). A libertarian answer would be to create a market where individuals have numerous choices. A big selling point would to compare your product's superiority to the other. I'm sure this wasn't the case for what you are talking about. Consumers back then had little choice and information. When a firm pollutes or causes harm to an individual, you take them to court and they pay for the offense. If a product kills you, they should be sued or shut down by some lawful force.


And how long will it take for you to see your day in court? Big business' lawyers can drag their feet for years to keep it from going before a jury. And what if the judge is prejudiced in favor of the defendant due to class loyalties? And trust me, that had happened quite a lot before government regulation saved people. In the meantime, you could have medical bills piling up, or you or a loved one might even be dying because of corporate evil, while you wait for a justice that seems to be dwindling further and further away in the distance.
Beside, I thought you conservatives were planning to make it harder to sue big corporations.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You can blame government for slow procedure. That's why most businesses prefer private arbitration. And the rest of you're post is speculative or hypothetical.


How is it the government's fault? They're not the ones who get corporate lawyers to drag their feet to keep cases from coming to court. And how is private arbitration going to help consumers harmed by big business if big business doesn't want to settle or go to court? And how is the rest of what I had written speculative or hypothetical when people are faced with those obstacles every day when up against big capital?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I suspect the private arbitration firms will be on the side of big business. They will be on the side of whoever can pay them the most. Libertarians do not seem to understand human nature. Getting rid of government will not get rid of abuse and corruption at the hands of those with disproportionate power.



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19 Jul 2012, 10:07 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
marshall wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Hey Bizboy - try reading The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair. It's the biggest reason you no longer find wedding rings and human fingers in your sausage today.


That's what the court system is for. Take them to court. Firms have an incentive to have safety standards. Sometimes there is a conflict of interest due to profits and bad business. (yes, businesses can make mistakes). A libertarian answer would be to create a market where individuals have numerous choices. A big selling point would to compare your product's superiority to the other. I'm sure this wasn't the case for what you are talking about. Consumers back then had little choice and information. When a firm pollutes or causes harm to an individual, you take them to court and they pay for the offense. If a product kills you, they should be sued or shut down by some lawful force.


And how long will it take for you to see your day in court? Big business' lawyers can drag their feet for years to keep it from going before a jury. And what if the judge is prejudiced in favor of the defendant due to class loyalties? And trust me, that had happened quite a lot before government regulation saved people. In the meantime, you could have medical bills piling up, or you or a loved one might even be dying because of corporate evil, while you wait for a justice that seems to be dwindling further and further away in the distance.
Beside, I thought you conservatives were planning to make it harder to sue big corporations.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Don't worry, when justice fails in an anarcho-capitalist utopia, people will look to private hit men to knock off the as*holes. That or they will riot in mass numbers and burn unscrupulous businesses to the ground. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.


I only fear that my hit man wouldn't be able to get through the army of hired Blackwater goons super rich businessmen would be protected by. Those same mercenaries probably in such an anarcho-capitalist utopia would be handling police work too, and so would mercilessly gun down the rioters.
And that's why we need the courts and the government to protect us. 8)

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


A fail to see the distinction between anarcho-capitalism and an absolute feudalistic society. I suspect there's be a ton of violence and bloodshed. LET FREEDOM RING! :roll:



bizboy1
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19 Jul 2012, 10:41 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Hey Bizboy - try reading The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair. It's the biggest reason you no longer find wedding rings and human fingers in your sausage today.


That's what the court system is for. Take them to court. Firms have an incentive to have safety standards. Sometimes there is a conflict of interest due to profits and bad business. (yes, businesses can make mistakes). A libertarian answer would be to create a market where individuals have numerous choices. A big selling point would to compare your product's superiority to the other. I'm sure this wasn't the case for what you are talking about. Consumers back then had little choice and information. When a firm pollutes or causes harm to an individual, you take them to court and they pay for the offense. If a product kills you, they should be sued or shut down by some lawful force.


And how long will it take for you to see your day in court? Big business' lawyers can drag their feet for years to keep it from going before a jury. And what if the judge is prejudiced in favor of the defendant due to class loyalties? And trust me, that had happened quite a lot before government regulation saved people. In the meantime, you could have medical bills piling up, or you or a loved one might even be dying because of corporate evil, while you wait for a justice that seems to be dwindling further and further away in the distance.
Beside, I thought you conservatives were planning to make it harder to sue big corporations.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You can blame government for slow procedure. That's why most businesses prefer private arbitration. And the rest of you're post is speculative or hypothetical.


How is it the government's fault? They're not the ones who get corporate lawyers to drag their feet to keep cases from coming to court. And how is private arbitration going to help consumers harmed by big business if big business doesn't want to settle or go to court? And how is the rest of what I had written speculative or hypothetical when people are faced with those obstacles every day when up against big capital?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Why is it the government's fault? Because our legal system is slow and inefficient. It takes way too much time and money to go to court. Government does not have incentives to speed up trials. Not only that but the supply of courts and judges are limited by the government.

Business prefer fast outcomes, which is why many prefer resolutions or private arbitration. Businesses are motivated by efficiency and cost effectiveness. Like businesses, individuals are motivated by efficiency and cost effectiveness (well the rational ones anyways) too.

Now if we take the strategy of business X who is motivated to stay in court so that person A runs out of money, then we have to make some assertions. First this practice must be well known so courts and individuals are well prepared for this strategy. So courts have the obligation to a speedy trial if they are truly neutral and fair. Second, right away we can dismiss those cases which are "clear-cut". This is because those cases have plentiful, strong, and compelling evidence presented. So those cases which are more difficult to determine (and thus more expensive) are probably less damaging to the individual and thus are more rightfully longer. This is good because frivolous law suits are always going to be there and we also want to protect businesses from such individuals that exploit businesses. For those cases that are serious, complicated a class action lawsuit might be more useful. In these types of cases the group of individuals act as a strong, well-equipped force.


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bizboy1
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19 Jul 2012, 10:48 pm

Just found this.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqo7XMkbtEk[/youtube]


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Kraichgauer
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19 Jul 2012, 11:56 pm

bizboy1 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Hey Bizboy - try reading The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair. It's the biggest reason you no longer find wedding rings and human fingers in your sausage today.


That's what the court system is for. Take them to court. Firms have an incentive to have safety standards. Sometimes there is a conflict of interest due to profits and bad business. (yes, businesses can make mistakes). A libertarian answer would be to create a market where individuals have numerous choices. A big selling point would to compare your product's superiority to the other. I'm sure this wasn't the case for what you are talking about. Consumers back then had little choice and information. When a firm pollutes or causes harm to an individual, you take them to court and they pay for the offense. If a product kills you, they should be sued or shut down by some lawful force.


And how long will it take for you to see your day in court? Big business' lawyers can drag their feet for years to keep it from going before a jury. And what if the judge is prejudiced in favor of the defendant due to class loyalties? And trust me, that had happened quite a lot before government regulation saved people. In the meantime, you could have medical bills piling up, or you or a loved one might even be dying because of corporate evil, while you wait for a justice that seems to be dwindling further and further away in the distance.
Beside, I thought you conservatives were planning to make it harder to sue big corporations.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You can blame government for slow procedure. That's why most businesses prefer private arbitration. And the rest of you're post is speculative or hypothetical.


How is it the government's fault? They're not the ones who get corporate lawyers to drag their feet to keep cases from coming to court. And how is private arbitration going to help consumers harmed by big business if big business doesn't want to settle or go to court? And how is the rest of what I had written speculative or hypothetical when people are faced with those obstacles every day when up against big capital?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Why is it the government's fault? Because our legal system is slow and inefficient. It takes way too much time and money to go to court. Government does not have incentives to speed up trials. Not only that but the supply of courts and judges are limited by the government.

Business prefer fast outcomes, which is why many prefer resolutions or private arbitration. Businesses are motivated by efficiency and cost effectiveness. Like businesses, individuals are motivated by efficiency and cost effectiveness (well the rational ones anyways) too.

Now if we take the strategy of business X who is motivated to stay in court so that person A runs out of money, then we have to make some assertions. First this practice must be well known so courts and individuals are well prepared for this strategy. So courts have the obligation to a speedy trial if they are truly neutral and fair. Second, right away we can dismiss those cases which are "clear-cut". This is because those cases have plentiful, strong, and compelling evidence presented. So those cases which are more difficult to determine (and thus more expensive) are probably less damaging to the individual and thus are more rightfully longer. This is good because frivolous law suits are always going to be there and we also want to protect businesses from such individuals that exploit businesses. For those cases that are serious, complicated a class action lawsuit might be more useful. In these types of cases the group of individuals act as a strong, well-equipped force.


I still don't get how the government is at fault. I'm sorry, but just because you and those snake oil salesmen on those videos of yours say so just doesn't cut it.
And for what it's worth, I'd rather take my chances in court if I'm ever up against a massive corporation, where we have the rule of law, instead of depending on some tool of business that settles disagreements between businesses.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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20 Jul 2012, 12:23 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Hey Bizboy - try reading The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair. It's the biggest reason you no longer find wedding rings and human fingers in your sausage today.


That's what the court system is for. Take them to court. Firms have an incentive to have safety standards. Sometimes there is a conflict of interest due to profits and bad business. (yes, businesses can make mistakes). A libertarian answer would be to create a market where individuals have numerous choices. A big selling point would to compare your product's superiority to the other. I'm sure this wasn't the case for what you are talking about. Consumers back then had little choice and information. When a firm pollutes or causes harm to an individual, you take them to court and they pay for the offense. If a product kills you, they should be sued or shut down by some lawful force.


And how long will it take for you to see your day in court? Big business' lawyers can drag their feet for years to keep it from going before a jury. And what if the judge is prejudiced in favor of the defendant due to class loyalties? And trust me, that had happened quite a lot before government regulation saved people. In the meantime, you could have medical bills piling up, or you or a loved one might even be dying because of corporate evil, while you wait for a justice that seems to be dwindling further and further away in the distance.
Beside, I thought you conservatives were planning to make it harder to sue big corporations.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You can blame government for slow procedure. That's why most businesses prefer private arbitration. And the rest of you're post is speculative or hypothetical.


How is it the government's fault? They're not the ones who get corporate lawyers to drag their feet to keep cases from coming to court. And how is private arbitration going to help consumers harmed by big business if big business doesn't want to settle or go to court? And how is the rest of what I had written speculative or hypothetical when people are faced with those obstacles every day when up against big capital?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Why is it the government's fault? Because our legal system is slow and inefficient. It takes way too much time and money to go to court. Government does not have incentives to speed up trials. Not only that but the supply of courts and judges are limited by the government.

Business prefer fast outcomes, which is why many prefer resolutions or private arbitration. Businesses are motivated by efficiency and cost effectiveness. Like businesses, individuals are motivated by efficiency and cost effectiveness (well the rational ones anyways) too.

Now if we take the strategy of business X who is motivated to stay in court so that person A runs out of money, then we have to make some assertions. First this practice must be well known so courts and individuals are well prepared for this strategy. So courts have the obligation to a speedy trial if they are truly neutral and fair. Second, right away we can dismiss those cases which are "clear-cut". This is because those cases have plentiful, strong, and compelling evidence presented. So those cases which are more difficult to determine (and thus more expensive) are probably less damaging to the individual and thus are more rightfully longer. This is good because frivolous law suits are always going to be there and we also want to protect businesses from such individuals that exploit businesses. For those cases that are serious, complicated a class action lawsuit might be more useful. In these types of cases the group of individuals act as a strong, well-equipped force.


I still don't get how the government is at fault. I'm sorry, but just because you and those snake oil salesmen on those videos of yours say so just doesn't cut it.
And for what it's worth, I'd rather take my chances in court if I'm ever up against a massive corporation, where we have the rule of law, instead of depending on some tool of business that settles disagreements between businesses.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Checkmate.


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20 Jul 2012, 12:53 am

I wouldn't be surprised if the US eventually breaks up into the 'United States of Canada' and Jesusland. There are tons of people from midwestern and southern states moving here to Portland I have noticed, I think they are cultural refugees of sorts, trying to find like minded people. I'm sure a lot of conservatives end up moving to Texas and places like that as well.



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20 Jul 2012, 7:21 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

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I only fear that my hit man wouldn't be able to get through the army of hired Blackwater goons......


It's Academi now, not Blackwater. I liked the name Blackwater much better myself, though. It had more of a sinister sound to it.


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20 Jul 2012, 1:01 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Quote:
I only fear that my hit man wouldn't be able to get through the army of hired Blackwater goons......


It's Academi now, not Blackwater. I liked the name Blackwater much better myself, though. It had more of a sinister sound to it.


I liked "Xe" as well. They seem to change their name whenever it starts becoming widespread knowledge. :chin:


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Kraichgauer
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20 Jul 2012, 1:23 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Quote:
I only fear that my hit man wouldn't be able to get through the army of hired Blackwater goons......


It's Academi now, not Blackwater. I liked the name Blackwater much better myself, though. It had more of a sinister sound to it.


My mistake.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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20 Jul 2012, 1:35 pm

Libertarianism is not feudalism or anarchy. It's Hong Kong, not Somalia. Thank you.


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Kraichgauer
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20 Jul 2012, 2:02 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Libertarianism is not feudalism or anarchy. It's Hong Kong, not Somalia. Thank you.


But doesn't Hong Kong have a social safety net, as well?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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20 Jul 2012, 3:54 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqo7XMkbtEk[/youtube]

The original name for "Asperger's" (DSM-3) was Schizoid Disorder of Childhood.


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