AS Atheism

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Funny thing is, there is more evidence of the historical inspiration for Santa than there is for Jeebus.

I have a soft spot for Saint Nicholas. I was born on his feast day, and my parents are from Holland, so we used to lightly celebrate it. I gave my son Nicholas for his middle name, as his "saint" name. I once did a holiday card with the history of how the modern Santa Claus image evolved. Its a little bit of this, and a little bit of that. As so many things are

Time definitely changes things, and changes how we view the past. Fact is lost. That can never be helped. But could the concept of Jesus have endured so pervasively if there hadn't been SOMETHING real? Interesting question.

OK, sorry, I really do have a work deadline. Just reading. Couldn't resist on Santa Claus

If we use the same approach to determine the reality of Jesus that science uses to determine the reality of Homer, Plato, and Herodotus for instance, then the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus comes off as the most historical event ever recorded.

That is to say, scientists who seek for the historical proof of any person in the past must base their proof upon a collection of information from the best available evidence of documentary sources.

And so, using the common method that science uses to determine the reality of anyone from the past, if Jesus is a myth, then so is Homer, Plato, Herodotus and anyone else who was born before the invention of birth certificates and I.D. photos.

That's not entirely accurate... With the exception of Socrates, we have multiple accounts and records of the existence of the individuals. We have people that actually knew him writing about him. The key difference in the figures you list and Jesus is that we have CONTEMPORARY writings about them.
There are major flaws in your logic. Birth certificates and I.D. photos alone are not evidence of a person's existence. You have to have corroborating evidence from multiple sources to come up with a reasonable probably of existence. If, in 2000 years, somebody finds my driver's license, that is not evidence I existed. Future researchers would need to check the I.D. against other sources of evidence. With the above figures, we have that evidence and it fits together. With Jesus, we don't. We have the books of the Bible and a few others that didn't make into the final Nicean draft. All of those were written long after Jesus supposedly died and they conflict with each other.
Another thing researchers check is mention of known historical events in a person's writings or in writings about that person. Again, we have this with these other people you mention, but not with Jesus. Pilate never mentions him in any of his writings, the Roman census mentioned in one of the Gospels in at the wrong time under the wrong ruler, there is no record of Herod's massacre of the Jewish first born, etc.
A nice idea, but it's been torn apart by far better men than I.

And, before I have to hear it again, saying that there is no proof that Jesus existed is not the same as saying there is proof he didn't. There very likely was a Jewish apocalyptic preacher in that area around that time (actually, they were a dime a dozen) that these stories are VERY LOOSELY based on.

Jesus Interrupted by Bart Ehrman... Read it if you really want to look into this stuff. There are more in depth books, but this one is a great start.

Did it include the history of how he used to be evil and that Pagan's used to sacrifice their children on that holiday...?
http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/t ... 1193929572

It's really kind of funny... If you look back through history at the various religions that have dominated over time, the thing that they all seem to share is this:
People REALLY don't like changing their holidays. They can switch to a completely different belief system, but don't move the holidays!

Amen(ra)

Saturnalia... over two hundred years "bc"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia

LOL

I imagine if God did exist he'd be pretty pissed. "Damn it!, I wish I hadn't made that promise about not drowning the whole lot of them again... Maybe fire and brimstone?? That's a classic... But I REALLY want to know how Lost ends... I guess it can wait."

Lord No! Interesting article but it didn't go into the Santa Claus history. Saint Nicholas was a real person, a Bishop of Myrrah (sp?), but along the way to becoming Santa Claus he absorbed a few traits of the Nordic God, Thor.

Lol, I've got to agree with you on that one

I would think so. The same question can be asked about the Midgårdsorm or Jörmungandr.

Who are????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midgardsormr

Circular arguments.

"Jesus HAD to have died and resurrected or else he wouldn't be the son of God and clearly he has to be the son of God because everyone believes him to be the son of God and there's no possible way for people to have been deceived or that people would create and perpetuate a myth."

I've had myths about me created, I don't find it very hard to believe that Bronze Age man could have created myths about people.

Well, the arch enemy Thor I've heard about Point being, they lack the pervasiveness and level of belief that Jesus has inspired. Not really comparable.

Some day I should read the Norse myths. The Greek ones were studied when I was a child, but not the Norse ones. If I recall correctly, I've heard that many of the themes we see run through common fantasy stories come from Norse literature and beliefs.

I went to Norway years and years ago. Amazing place.

Hey Jimb424,

I recently joined, spied your topic and without reading the responses I dare infer a response based on the moderate amount of research on Asperger syndrome in conjunction with large number of negative opinions on cannabis which are sonorously ignorant and erroneous.


There will be fewer atheists, compared to of some god belief (deism does not seem to fit the profile for some reason).
It's difficult to come up with a rough percentage, however let's say at least 70% will have some religious belief (weighing heavily on perhaps one of the Abrahamic religions with a higher probability of Christians) that will predominantly be of some theistic nature.


I hope I am incorrect, resulting an inverse to my estimation.


-Me