What do you think of George W. Bush?

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Epimonandas

perhaps we just dont buy into those particular delusions
Saddam was contained, he couldn't live forever. We could have just waited.

TAFKASH


I know its a horrible thoought, but I am hoping for a hung parliament, give the LDs some influence, maybe we could reign in some of the insanity.

Neotopian, you are quite right. Except, truth be told, most Americans did not vote for W on November 2, 2004, just as most Americans did not vote for him in 2000. Our exit polls showed that W lost, but according to the neocon minions, the exit polls in Ukraine are far more reliable than exit polls in the US. Our mainstream media have ignored the countless reports of voter fraud and manipulation here, but look at Representative John Conyers's website (www.house.gov/conyers) for the reality check. (Also for general apologies, go to sorryeverybody.com because Democrats by nature simply can't play as cut-throat as never-been-laid, couldn't-get-a-date Karl Rove-my-hands-over-a-nubile-boy, but I digress).

I would like to mention that without the assistance of Tony Blair, the US would have been less likely to declare war on Iraq. The UK as a member of the "coalition of the willing (duped)" made this misery legitimate in the eyes of many Americans, and they use it now against us.

Reading over the previous posts I am chagrined. Everyone can play tit for tat over previous world leaders. None of them was ever perfect. I am distraught over now. The unelected one in the US is disastrous. Many of us do wish Rumsfeld would go to the security conference in Germany and be arrested for war crimes. Something of that magnitude may startle people here back into reality. Otherwise, I fear this cult; it's the only way to describe intelligent human beings who are fed lies daily, absorb it all like a sponge, and then regurgitate it like your prom date.

So, Neoptopian, all I can say on behalf of my fellow US citizens is that I'd rather believe in voter theft and manipulation perpetrated by all the Republican-owned e-voting machine companies complicit with the neocon monolith than believe that 60 million of us are that stupid.

Quite right - THREE QUARTERS OF THE POPULATION OF THE USA DID NOT VOTE FOR THE WARMONGERING IMBECILE!! !! (even ignoring all the voter theft - the US system is already more than corrupt enough to return tainted, completely non-representative Presidents without the need for all that)



errr..... Not sure how appropriate an insult that is for an aspie forum....

One question on divorcing oneself from reality; do you have to pay any alimony out or is there an implied prenub?

Delusions my heiny. Just because you refuse to believe the obvious and instead believe the bs left wing biased reporting.

Honestly what on Earth are you smoking? I suppose then you could just as easily say Clinton did not win because not more than 60% of the entire population voted for him. BUSH DID WIN. The IDIOT DEMOCRAT LEFT WING NEWS SHOWS SCREWED UP THE EXIT POLLS WHEN 0% OF PRECINTS REPORTING THEY SOMEHOW (But wrongly) PREDICTED GORE WOULD WIN, guess what, he did not. And there were other states that were closer in results that were not recounted. Only 3 democratic leaning counties were recounted at last count at least. Yes that was fair to the Republicans hind end. NEWSFLASH BUSH WON by an even greater margin in the last election. Gee could it have something to do with the Democrats disconnected sense of reality?

Cornice are trying to say the U.S. sent Saddam chemical weapons, bio agents, and nukes, I don't recall the U.S. sending such weapons to anyone, even allies ever.

epimonandas if you are interested take a look at the stories from 83 and 84 concerning iraq and chemical warfare. If you are googling it you can also add rumsfeld to that search. you might find it interesting.

This thread is starting to get personal. Stick to rational argument please - any more name calling and offensive rhetoric from either camp and I will be forced to lock this thread.

Interesting indeed.... here's one for starters

http://news.neilrogers.com/news/article ... 22413.html

Dunc

renegede

I know that there is huge fruad in your system, and evenalluded to it in my original post:




for which I as a Brit apoligise to you.



I'd rather belive that too..., but then we have to ask, if that many americans aren't stupid, why do you let this go on?



And now we bring democracy to Iraq?
oh dear!

Careful what you say, or a moderator might lock this topic.

People can say what they want about the validity of Iraq and foreign affairs, just that from what I've seen too many natural dynamics snap into place for me to believe otherwise.

When it comes to the electrions though or any conspiracy threories that people have on things that supposedly happened on our soil - your forgetting some MAJOR liabilities, controls, and things that would make all this completely impossible.

When the votes are counted, it'sa bipartisan effort, just as many Bush haters as Bush lovers were counting em, and if there was so much as an inkling that the election was corrupt by someone who hadn't liked Bush and who wanted to be famous for bringing down a president - the newspapers would have been blaring it from coast to coast with even more air than they gave Abu Ghrav.

Just remember what happened with Dan Rather and the National Guard documents. His authenticity advisors told him, unanimously, that the papers didn't even resemble what they were claimed to be and were an obvious hoax. Howeve, people like Rather hated Bush so much and were chomping at the bit so badly beat one to him that they aired it even with all the warnings.

IMO, in a media and film culture like we have goig on right now, a republican conspiracy is impossible. As a matter of fact any conspiracy is practically impossible when the media at large is digging at someone for dirt like heroin addicts in bad need of a fix. In any sized group of people there's always gonna be someone who will blow the whistle - either for honosty and moral purposes or for selfish delusions of grandeur and desire to be famous. Unless the media is controlled under threat of physical violence by a government or by media contracts like they have in parts of Western Europe (if your rocking the boat "Oops! We forgot to renew your reporting license - so long!") then the truth WILL get out.

As for someone just claiming about 7 or 8 posts up that 3/4 really voted for Kerry, the exit polls were contracted out to a survey group who's results had much more to do with their sampling choices - people can and will bend that if they have an agenda.

Oh, and if you can't fathom how Bush got elected when no one YOU know voted for him, that's the big city playing tricks with your head. I almost thought Kerry would win just because I live in a highly liberal area - only thing is those areas are pretty much the seaboards, major cities, and then you have the whole spread of the heartland and their major cities wondering where there are enough democrats to get 40 or so percent of the vote when they know all of one or two in they're whole personal scope. The problem is, what people see in front of them is a small group, isn't the big picture.

If the big picture offends you because it isn' what you think it should be - you really don't wanna call in conspiracy theories just to make the world conform to your wishes - you aren't doing yourself or your own inteligence any justice. Thinking like that is what causes people to get stuck where they are, keeps them from expanding as individuals, keeps them from moving foreward in life, and over all is the kind of closed mindedness that causes a lot of people to be dead at 30 and buried at 80. You've gotta stay open minded, stay on top of the facts, and not let group think swallow you (Tammy Bruce's lecture at Florida State couldn't have summed this psychological and societal problem up better).

Well said, techstepgenr8tion (claps)!

I would also like to point out to the Democrats and left wing supporters, that Clinton was called a warmonger, or something similar, too for using troops so often and they feared this was because of his Vietnam draft dodging allegations such as they thought he wanted to prove he could use the military too.

And the last time the U.S. occupied a nation with the purpose of making it a territory was the Phillipines after the Spanish American war and the Phillipinos resisted and we fought them 3x longer than the Spanish and then we kept the nation for almost 50 years. We learned that lesson, so your fears of colonialism are ill founded, after that experience we rebuilt Europe after a stay of only a few years.

On that Iraq chemical article Duncvis mentioned, I saw no mention of the U.S. shipping wmds like chem or bios to Iraq, as someone stated in an earlier post to which I made the counter argument with which you responded to by posting this link. The U.S. did have an axe to grind with Iran after the hostage crisis in the late '70's, it was the cold war, Soviets supported Iran, so the U.S. supported Iraq. I am not going to defend their weak stand against using chems, but it must be viewed in the light in which the situation was cast.

My beef with Clinton had less to do with Monica and more with cutting our millitary from 18 divisions down to 10, selling top-secret technologies to China, trying to sell China a naval base in California, stuff like that.

If anything the smartest thing Clinton did was all that womanizing - it completely distracted people from much dirtier scandals that actually had some rather serious national security backbone to them. If it wasn't Monica, it was backpage.

The iraq war was never a good choice. Bible thumping nut-jobs like W should take a good look at themselves. Bush is a bible thumper but he had violated one of the most important comandments:
THOU SHALT NOT KILL
The iraq war might as well be called killfest 2003, 2004, 2005

REALITY CHECK! No weapons have been found Saddam did as we said and disarmed
SADDAM SHOULD GO FREE!! !

CLINTON RULES BUSH SUCKS

So just because he managed to hide most of them in the 8 months before an attack wa actually made and refused to actually comply with the peace (thus rendering the first war pointless and the deaths of our soldiers in that one since we let Saddam get away with violations stipulated against in the treaty). Even if he had no weapons, he violated the treaty by not letting the inspectors inspect and so CONFIRM compliance. This is the behavior of a bully, to tease, fight, annoy, and lie, and you see nothing wrong with that? That is why Neville Chamberlain could not contain Hitler, he let him walk all over any compromises they made. So Hitler, got bolder and stepped on more agreements. Thus he was encouraged. You should not make it easy for a bully, cause then they will never quit and only get worse. Lessons of history must be heeded. No more Hitlers. Even Clinton made an assault or two on Saddam, and Saddam still would not comply, so his tactic of light indirect assaults worked wonders, Not.