Who could change your beliefs?

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I could be misunderstanding the way you phrase it but I've always seen you indicate that people only had so much ability to optimize their lives, that people would make such decisions most of the time, but that people had the freedom to do absurdly self-injurious things, they just won't make that choice because its stupid. In that sense, while I agree that more positive can't be made of things, I thought you were indicating that people had the freewill do do negative things?

That's just where the traceback begins, and if its foster parents and siblings then partly them as well.

I have always indicated that people's choices deprnd upon internal inclinations and outer circumstance. Choice, otherwise, makes no rational sense. That does not indicate free will.

And internal inclinations are purely matter interacting with the world in combination with current events, past events, and its source construction.

Does it take free will to change a belief then?

Nope, just takes predestiny having that in its schedule.

If you examine your thoughts - because we're such intelligent beings - you can see how numerous they are - and how we can actually choose which thoughts to follow and which ones to abandon. Yes it can be influenced by our internal inclinations and external conditions - but when you really focus on the nitty gritty you can see that we have a choice. It can take a lot of effort but it is possible to rule our own thoughts.

I read about lucid dreaming once and thought I'd give it a go. So I followed the required instructions as I fell asleep. With the right concentration I was able to stay aware of my dream. I won't tell you what it was about because that's embarrassing - but anyhow I didn't like the outcome of the dream so I used my lucidity to rewind it and change the outcome. It was really really cool! So yeah, my choice to do that was dependent on certain factors - but I still had a choice.

But that's what's intuitively tricky here - I am in fact splitting hairs. As intelligent beings with thousands of thoughts per day, that just says you have a sky high amount of variables - not that the outcome isn't linear or that if you rewound your day and played it over again without someone outside so much as taking a breath out of step in this past review - you would do the same exact things over and over because it would be us technically, in a sense, a 100% carbon copy. I'd imply from that, as events went forward from that point, we are in the present creating 'past' and the future is, IMO, history yet to be acted out.

ditto

A few days ago I realized that Patrick Swayze had died.

techstep - You may be right about that. I guess we can't know. But I guess it's about which way of thinking is of most use to us. By thinking that everything is mapped out it may help us to accept circumstances that arise when we feel we can't do anything about them. But by thinking that we are constantly in control of our choices it gives us a freedom to at least try to improve our situation.

Exactly, and I think this seven line slice of wisdom is exactly how to read it - better whatever you can, listen to your most positive and proactive urges, the part of yourself that you think is the most transcendent and brings the most light to your own life - use it. I think part of really finding myself as an adult seems to have revolved around a revelation that I had a few weeks ago. For the longest time in my life I thought that I could bend, break, bust anything about myself that wasn't socially acceptible or that caused confusion about my intent, confusion about my true self, and like it was up to me to rectify the situation and anything I couldn't manually work like that - I had to wallow in shame over that failing. I used to have anxieties about missed chances, would I have met the partner of my dreams had I just turned left instead of right a few minutes back? Is there some stupid arbitrary rule I'm failing by using 'my' logic? Would it have worked differently if I had either socially conformed better, or been a soft rock fan, or been a Christian like certain people told me I should have been?

The revelation I had is this - I do have a center zone where what I do refreshes me, recharges me, invigorates me, makes life worth living. When I wander off that center zone - I'm not only bleeding energy and growing more and more tired, whatever I'm trying to be outside that zone I can put herculean effort into, gain an inch, wake up the next morning, and its gone. Understanding that then I came to the realization that to guide myself properly in life, forget all the little bits and pieces of advice that people give this is the core of it - I'm built to function a certain way, be at my best in a certain way, and I have to obey that frame regardless of what people may think. I never understood or perhaps fully believed that to a point, I thought I was whoever the heck I decided I was - not the case. Understanding predestiny as well at least helps seal the deal on the 'what ifs'.

I probably should be more careful on sharing that theory though - it helps me because I've always tended to be way too hard on myself, for other people in the other direction who may misuse it - probably not the healthiest thing.

And I think that's the whole point in having a belief - to help us function better. That's why beliefs necessarily have to be different for different people - because we're all going to find benefit in different ways.

I'm glad you've found a way to stop being so hard on yourself. As for me - it seems to be a constant state of flipping between the extremes. If I could find a balanced view that I could make work I'd be pretty happy. I'm so all-or-nothing.

I don't know, and I can't predict in advance.

This thread is full of philosophy that seems familiar to me.

The doha vajra song (not sure about my spelling and heres a phonetic attempt at the authours name Grundig Rinpoche )

To acheive ones destiny one only has to have existed in time. Each of us are not unlike atoms bouncing off each other, affecting each others trajectories. At each end, it all will play out as it will always have played out.

Different rules tomorrow today and in the passed will change one's beliefs from what they were to what they are to what they will be, in all what has to be, is what will be. So one had better find one's groove, and strive toward every goal with complete effort, and and one's outcome will be what it has to be.

On the other hand just dealing with the basic question.
Some events that will likely move ones beliefs forward are loss of loved ones, or extreme pain and suffering.

If I was teased about something enough than I would likely beleive it. Same goes for praise.
Sometimes i see people doing things that smash the sterio types that I had already labled them with. Then that stereotype is immediately in question.

I beleive that some old dogs will never learn new tricks. Sometimes I think I am an old dog, but that doesn't last. I learned a new trick!! !