Atlas Shrugged

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You are aware that Atlas Shrugged is a work of fiction, right?

Atlas Shrugged is fiction? You don't say... it is after all the Bible for so many on the Right... and yet, here the Right says is a situation that is so much like this fictional scenario but instead of celebrating death and destruction as they do there, they lament it. Consistency, please!

Care to explain why 14-17 seconds in on the video you posted for part 1, there is a clear case of editting that is not the result of cameras being switched.

My guess would be for time contraints. I have seen this particular speech in its entirety and full context; trust me, the portion that was edited out does not make the overall speech sound any better.

Then how about you post it in it's entirety because 1:50-2:06 has at least 2 instances where part of his speech were cut out.

From what I've listened to thus far, though I don't see where you're coming up with your statements about Beck. Sure, if you take things out of context I see it, but if you pay attention to context then it looks like you have no argument.

I seriously, doubt it was editted for time constraints, it looks more like it was editted for sound bites.

Why bother? You can go to the CPAC website and watch for yourself. I'm sure you'll be able to find it. I'd actually be shocked if you hadn't already seen it. It got a fair amount of media attention, and I would have figured you would have followed CPAC very closely.


I made no statements about Beck based on those videos. Do not confuse me with xenon13, ever.


Why not? Youtube has time limits on uploaded videos, and within the first 20 seconds some very juicy sound bites with which to bash Beck were edited out. If this was a deliberate attempt to take stuff out of context and slam Beck, they did a pretty crappy job of it.

The editing was done to get rid of the fat and keep the substance. There's a transcript available and that's what was used.... This is an example...

We have a guy in the Republican Party who says his – his favorite president is Theodore Roosevelt. Well, I thought so too until I read Theodore Roosevelt. By the way, Theodore Roosevelt, the guy who started the Bull Moose Party, which was the progressive party.

Theodore Roosevelt, quote –

(reading) We judge no man a fortune in civil life if it’s honorably obtained and well spent.

Omitted was the "Well I through so..." plus dead air and crowd reaction. I don't think it's much of a surprise that he once had a positive opinion of Roosevelt and it's not particularly relevant.

If you want to figure out what he says between his passage about "designed to eat the constitution" and his talk of Theodore Roosevelt, that's where he tries to claim that the Progressives and the Communists are one and the same. If anything that makes him look worse but is not as important as the other stuff in my opinion - I was looking more for the Beck playing to the movement and less Beck the eccentric. His life story is very important in how he makes his case and he speaks to people who had setbacks, had little help and have developed the opinion that this was good for them and everyone needs this "tough love" when required and that anything to prevent this is bad and wrong but on a certain level unfair to them personally.

After Beck says "they cannot coexist" he says "And we need big thinkers, and brave people with spines who can make the case – that can actually say to Americans: look it’s going to be hard – it’s going to be hard but it’s going to be okay. We’re going to make it." This is not particularly important and besides he says such things later on particuarly at the end.

Enjoy the transcript if you want.

I edited the videos and I did the edits based on editing the transcript and it was designed to maintain the context... the part about the alcoholic and the beginning I almost cut out in the end because he comes back to his life as a mess but this is very important in the speech. There may be one thing that could be a bit misleading and that's when he talks about people dying - he said that if the USA "hit bottom", it's a good "bottom" (compared to his own life experience of "hitting bottom" and said that many people who "hit bottom" die and "can't be saved'. This isn't altogether too clear here.

Hmmm, actually looks like Glenn Beck had a pretty good presentation:

Sombody just sent this to me this week. (holds up book) It’s “Progress and Democracy for Rhode Island.” You can’t read the date here but it’s 1938. And I just want to read a bit of this to you. I looked under Democracy.

(reading) Democracy has always played an important role in the history of Rhode Island. Time and again, the people of the state have repudiated attempts to nullify or curtail it. Well, in 1938 we are again faced with a proposition: shall democratic government continue?

Quote –

(reading) We communists are ready to join with all liberty-loving people in defending democracy. Democracy is the rule of the majority. And it can only operate as well as our Constitution permits it to operate. But our Constitution is now over a hundred years old and fast out-living its usefulness.

(scattered boos)

You go to the – you go the, uh, next section and it talks about who is – who their allies – and it talks about the progressive movement being the allies.

(reading) Representing democracy, progress and peace: President Roosevelt and the New Deal Democrats, and independent, progressive Republicans.

In the back –

(reading) Defeat Vanderbilt and the entire Republican machine. Elect progressive candidates for every office – for job security, democracy, and peace, vote Communist.

The idea, between the two – the argument, in Woodrow Wilson’s day – the argument was, well, you’re a Marxist. You’re a Communist. No, no. No I’m not. I’m a progressive. Well, what’s the difference? Here’s the difference.

If I spell something wrong, you guys are going to kill me.

(laughter)

(writes “Revolution” and “Evolution” on the chalkboard)

Revolution or evolution, that’s the difference. Revolution or evolution. Well, there’s no difference except one requires a gun and the other does it slowly, piece by piece, eating away at it, to the point to where now our people in Congress, they don’t even care. Have they even read – and I know they’re used to not reading things that are two-thousand pages – could they read this? It’s only four!
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.actio ... 4978060978

Continuing here is another part that I feel should be quoted:

America is not a clown show. America is not a circus. America is an idea. America is an idea that sets people free.

I’m tired. I am tired, and I know you are. I’m tired of common sense not applying anymore. We all know what the problems are. It’s tax and spend. One party will tax and spend, the other party won’t tax but will spend. It’s both of them. Both of them together. I’m tired. I’m tired.

(attempts to erase blackboard but eraser doesn’t work well)

Oh, this is good. This isn’t going to work out well. Um.

I’m tired of feeling like a freak in America, and I know so many people are too. We – we don’t mind, you have a different opinion than me, that’s okay. You don’t agree with me, that’s okay. We’re never going to agree; there are 300 million of us, we’re never going to agree. How boring would life be if we all thought exactly the same thing? We wouldn’t really be able to create anything: it takes the exchange of ideas. But I am tired of forty percent of this country – forty percent say they’re conservative. Now how many more are out there who don’t want to say that they’re conservative because you just want to kill and eat children?

(laughter)

Forty percent. Thirty-six percent say they’re moderates. What is it, twenty percent? Twenty percent say they’re liberals. How are they making seventy-six percent feel like they’re the minority? The majority does not rule in America. But the minority shouldn’t hijack it.

(applause)

And it’s because we’re afraid. They have isolated us and made us feel as though we’re alone. We’re not. Now how is it – how is it that this can be? And the Republicans, and conservatives – keep losing. Well, one – the twenty, twenty-one percent, they know how to put on a good show. Man, they know how to do it. They know how to – I mean, it’s Hollywood: they know how to package something, they know how to explain it; they’re very, very good. But then you’re like yeah, I want to get me some of that. And they you get it and you’re like, aah, I don’t want any of that.

(applause)

That’s what’s happening in America right now – oh my gosh, help. They know how to package it. Well, forget about the packaging, and let’s look what’s actually in the package. What does it mean to be a conservative? I don’t even know anymore. I know what it means to me. It means to me, personal responsibility. That if I’ve done something wrong, it’s up to me to pay the price. It’s up to me to make it right. Personal responsibility. Now don’t talk to me about your childhood, you want to hear me go on about my childhood? No. I don’t want to hear about your childhood. I don’t care what happened in your childhood. What’s happening today? What are you doing today?

(applause)

We have a right to fail. We have a right to fail – no, no, this is a God-given right. We have a right to fail. Without failure there is no growth. Fifteen years ago, I was completely broke. I was completely out of control. I had no answers in my life, none. I was living in a little one-room apartment, I lost my family, everything. My whole life was spiraling out of control. I was on the fetal position of my – of my apartment. Am I going to die? Or I’m going to figure it out, and live. Because no one was there, if somebody would have been there to hold me up, I wouldn’t have been down here enough (drops to knees) to be able to dust myself off and say no, I’m not going to spend my life here, I’m going to stand up on my own two feet (stands), figure it out, and because of that failure I can stand here today.

(applause)

Without failure, there is no sweetness in success; there’s no understanding of it. And we’re – we’re saying that there – these people are too big to fail. When did we become the country that says the big guy needs to be – if you’re a bank and you didn’t know you shouldn’t give a loan to somebody who can’t even present a check or a piece of identification – you should fail.

(applause)

Conservatives believe that we are guaranteed the right to pursue happiness. We’re not guaranteed happiness; who can guarantee you happiness? Tiger Woods wasn’t happy. No one is guaranteed happiness. You can pursue it. But if you happen to find success along the way, on that road to happiness, conservatives believe you shouldn’t be demonized or penalized for it.

(applause)

We believe in the right of the individual. We believe in the right of the individual. We believe in the right, you can speak out, you can disagree with me, you can make your own path. But I’m not going to pay for your mistakes, and I don’t expect you to pay for my mistakes. We’re all going to make them, but we all have the right to move down that road. What we don’t have a right to is: health care, housing, or handouts. We don’t have those rights.

(applause)

Every time the government grows we lose more of who we are. When you give up your right to struggle, when you – you say, here, you’re giving more of your freedom away. There – every time it grows, they have to raise the price – they raise the price of the American dream through taxes or through massive debt. We are destroying our children’s future. Look, anybody who thought that George Bush was spending and it made any kind of sense was a madman. There comes a point where you must stop and realize that we cannot do this. We’re pricing ourselves out of the American dream.

I grew up in a bakery in a small town called Mount Vernon, Washington. It’s a small little town in – you’re from there?

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.actio ... 4978060978

To me it looks like he is quite sane and his reasoning is well thought out.

That bolded section was left in the final cut of the videos... the whole point is to show the arguments made and how it fits in to the "conservative movement" ... how he uses his life experience... this represents the kind of world that they have set up, one that does have some appeal to struggling people. There is one very important delusion there that is very empowering - the whole notion that the Will can drive one to success, that it's just a matter of one's own choice. The idea that people make their own destiny and have complete control over that. This is a false idea but is a reassuring one for many who don't like to even consider the possibility that they're in a losing battle where they have no chance.

I despise Ayn Rand, and stereotypes are just stereotypes. Yah, I'll do my job and contribute to society to the best of my ability, but I won't worship the rich and see them as some godsend or oasis to humanity that I, my less divine and uber self, have the privilege of working less than minimum wage for.

Is it the case that you do not mind having your best efforts spent on those who will not exert the effort to support themselves? I am not talking about the unfortunate disabled. Rather, I am talking about lazy bums who expect to be supported by the efforts of others. Do you want to work to support these parasites?

ruveyn

I agree. Those crooks on Wall street do not deserve the billions they award themselves for lazing in lounge chairs and speculating themselves into wealth with other people's money

The billionaires have this money because of control. Now, if your president loots the national treasury because he can, does that make it right?

? Why would he do that it would just get him impeached and his assets confiscated.

If that were the case, Glenn Beck wouldn't be rich now. He literally went from being dirt poor to being extremely wealthy.

Well luck still plays its part Inuyasha. It's irrelevant however as acknowledging effects beyond creating contingency plans is pointless. Dwelling on it often leads to weakness, and its understandable that he glazed over it.(it would be like a socialist pointing out that governments attempting socialism usually(that is up to this point) debase themselves to communism in a relatively short time.) He can't risk implanting mental weakness(excessive doubt) in his followers. The ones that think can figure it out, the others likely wont get far enough to need it.