Are Christians responsible for the hatred of Jews today?

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The Talmud is filled with supremacist statements and insults towards gentiles and Zionists often aren't any better. Historically, Jews have been associated with subversive movements, usury, thieving, prostitution and numerous other activities or professions considered highly immoral by gentiles. How does one draw the line between being sceptical about Jews due to these negative associations and being prejudiced against Jews for being Jews?

Anyway, it is my opinion that antisemitism is the logical consequence of the behavior and attitude of a significant amount of individuals within the Jewish community perceived by gentiles as highly immoral and representative of Judaism in general.

So you can't you name one atheist organization in the United States that is anti-Jewish? Why would the "mainstream media" try to "cover it up?"

Inuyasha and Pandabear, the reason the Soviet Union was at one time considered pro-Jewish was that Lenin pretended to be pro-Jewish to lure support of prominent socialist Jews. Stalin was not pro-Jewish, but he kept up the fiction of liking Jews until the 50s. The USSR became anti-Jewish in the 50s. After 1964, the USSR became almost as hostile to Jews as the old Imperial regime.
In reality the Soviets were never pro-Jewish, they really didn't trust anyone, even each other.

What "agreements" were these? As best I recall what communication there was was little better than extortion, as in pay us some amount and we'll refrain from killing some Jews, and maybe we'll let some Jews out.

And this is the same as Arabs serving in the Israeli parliament, Arabs putting on Israeli uniforms and dying for Israel?

Any reason in particular that Jews would establish a "concentration camp" that abuts Egyptian territory? (As Gaza does.) Are they that stupid, in the sense that any Palestinian "inmate" of said "concentration camp" who wants to can now get from Gaza into another Arab state with about as much trouble as a Mexican does entering the US? (Presuming, of course, Egyptian cooperation, which as I understand it is a mixed bag.)

This is hardly the same as one train-line running into Auschwitz-Birkenau. That brought in full cars and left with empty ones.

Would it surprise you if I say I agree to an extent with the above statement? However, while true, this is far from the entire story. First, the Palestinian leaders rather stupidly did the work of the Israelis for them, urging their people to flee. Which they did, in large numbers. Second, the Palestinians were promised all sorts of military aid from Egypt, Jordan and so on, that not only never materialized, was used rather cynically (in the case of Jordan) to annex territory that had nothing to do with the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Third, the way the original partition was done, there was no way war could be avoided. And finally, propaganda the Palestinians got pretty much non-stop would've made any non-violent solution impossible.

Quite frankly, your original comparison of Israel = NS Germany is nonsense, and the more you participate in this thread the sillier you are sounding. So, I probably will not be responding to any more of your posts on this thread. Life is too short.

Or rather, atheism involves not believing in any god. No god, none at all. and also probably no other supernatural woo. It is a lack of ideology.

Atheism cannot cause you anti-semitism , it is also true, that it can't prevent it. They are unrelated things whatsoever.

The societies you name are not anti-semitic as a result from their atheism.

It is similar to linking anti-semitism with asperger's syndrome.

Anti-semites ( and folks opposed to antisemitism) come in all stripes.
Christian anti-semites commonly hate Jews for killing Christ and threatening Christianity, and athiest antisemites blame the Jews for founding Christianity!

Likewise there are rightwingers who hate jews for being too socialisic and there are leftwing antisemites who hate jews for being too capitalistic, and so on.

Himself a Jew, Marx has around him, in London and France, but especially in Germany, a multitude of more or less clever, intriguing, mobile, speculating Jews, such as Jews are every where: commercial or banking agents, writers, politicians, correspondents for newspapers of all shades, with one foot in the bank, the other in the socialist movement, and with their behinds sitting on the German daily press — they have taken possession of all the newspapers — and you can imagine what kind of sickening literature they produce. Now, this entire Jewish world, which forms a single profiteering sect, a people of blooksuckers, a single gluttonnous parasite, closely and intimately united not only across national borders but across all differences of political opinion — this Jewish world today stands for the most part at the disposal of Marx and at the same time at the disposal of Rothschild. I am certain that Rothschild for his part greatly values the merits of Marx, and that Marx for his part feels instinctive attraction and great respect for Rothschild.

This may seem strange. What can there be in common between Communism and the large banks? Oh! The Communism of Marx seeks enormous centralization in the state, and where such exists, there must inevitably be a central state bank, and where such a bank exists, the parasitic Jewish nation, which. speculates on the work of the people, will always find a way to prevail ....

Many human beings blame another group for their own misfortune. There is a whole psychology/pathology around it.

I must admit I have never read the Talmud, but if what you say is a fact, so what? Just because one group says they are better than others, this should not be taken seriously.

I would not take it seriously if you, Sal, mentioned over coffee that you and your group were superior to me. I would probably wish you good luck and pay for my coffee, then leave you to bask in your superior glow, also known as paranoid delusion.

There is a tome written by the aforementioned dictator in which he proclaimed superiority for he and his ethnic group. He also discussed what to do to save his favoured race from the superiority of the Jewish people. The result of his "struggle" was millions upon millions dead in a dozen years of his regime of war and destruction.

Group superiority is a paranoid myth. Get over it, drink up your beverage, and move on.

Those who quote the Talmud to try to justify anti-semitic feelings usually have little understanding of what the Talmud is, often mis-quote...in many cases quote verses that actually aren't in the Talmud (because who's going to bother to check right?) and in the case they do quote a verse from the Talmud, it's usually taken out of context or misunderstood.

Of course, this is not always the case. Jews are are humans and, unfortunately, subject to prejudice, racism, and xenophobia just like everyone else. You will probably find some writing from some rabbis which indeed to not speak kindly of gentiles but it needs to be understood in the context of the environment (which may itself have been anti-semitic), and one needs to keep in mind that that just about anyone can convert to Judaism.

Modern jewry is not a big giant happy family where everyone knows everyone else and agrees with everyone else. The world of secular judaism is light years away from the world of orthodox judaism.

As someone with Jewish heritage, my experience with anti-semites have been such.

I'm generally a good person...probably a better person than average to be honest. I am not the greedy, lier, who is planning to dominate the world and enslave non-jews as most anti-semites like to think. However they reflect their image of what they think a jew is on me anyway.

This is the cycle in their mind: Jews are greedy liers -> This person is a jew -> This person is a greedy lier.

In their mind, that is what I am, end of story.

I don't know if this man thought I was jewish...maybe, maybe not, but this is what jews deal with from anti-semites all the time.

As a Lutheran, I found the remarks about Martin Luther to be false. We do not wish any harm to people of other faiths, races, or sexual orientation. All he did was nail 95 thesis to a church in Wittenberg, Germany. And allowed access to the Bible by people who didn't speak Latin.

I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that these miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen.

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He did not call them Abraham's children, but a "brood of vipers" [Matt. 3:7]. Oh, that was too insulting for the noble blood and race of Israel, and they declared, "He has a demon' [Matt 11:18]. Our Lord also calls them a "brood of vipers"; furthermore in John 8 [:39,44] he states: "If you were Abraham's children ye would do what Abraham did.... You are of your father the devil. It was intolerable to them to hear that they were not Abraham's but the devil's children, nor can they bear to hear this today.

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Therefore the blind Jews are truly stupid fools...

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Now just behold these miserable, blind, and senseless people.

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...their blindness and arrogance are as solid as an iron mountain.

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Learn from this, dear Christian, what you are doing if you permit the blind Jews to mislead you. Then the saying will truly apply, "When a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into the pit" [cf. Luke 6:39]. You cannot learn anything from them except how to misunderstand the divine commandments...

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Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self­glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them.

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Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch­thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security.

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However, they have not acquired a perfect mastery of the art of lying; they lie so clumsily and ineptly that anyone who is just a little observant can easily detect it. But for us Christians they stand as a terrifying example of God's wrath.

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If I had to refute all the other articles of the Jewish faith, I should be obliged to write against them as much and for as long a time as they have used for inventing their lies­­ that is, longer than two thousand years.

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...Christ and his word can hardly be recognized because of the great vermin of human ordinances. However, let this suffice for the time being on their lies against doctrine or faith.

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Did I not tell you earlier that a Jew is such a noble, precious jewel that God and all the angels dance when he farts?

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Alas, it cannot be anything but the terrible wrath of God which permits anyone to sink into such abysmal, devilish, hellish, insane baseness, envy, and arrogance. If I were to avenge myself on the devil himself I should be unable to wish him such evil and misfortune as God's wrath inflicts on the Jews, compelling them to lie and to blaspheme so monstrously, in violation of their own conscience. Anyway, they have their reward for constantly giving God the lie.

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No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.

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...but then eject them forever from this country. For, as we have heard, God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!

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Over and above that we let them get rich on our sweat and blood, while we remain poor and they such the marrow from our bones.

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I brief, dear princes and lords, those of you who have Jews under your rule­­ if my counsel does not please your, find better advice, so that you and we all can be rid of the unbearable, devilish burden of the Jews, lest we become guilty sharers before God in the lies, blasphemy, the defamation, and the curses which the mad Jews indulge in so freely and wantonly against the person of our Lord Jesus Christ, this dear mother, all Christians, all authority, and ourselves. Do not grant them protection, safe­conduct, or communion with us.... .With this faithful counsel and warning I wish to cleanse and exonerate my conscience.

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Let the government deal with them in this respect, as I have suggested. But whether the government acts or not, let everyone at least be guided by his own conscience and form for himself a definition or image of a Jew.

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However, we must avoid confirming them in their wanton lying, slandering, cursing, and defaming. Nor dare we make ourselves partners in their devilish ranting and raving by shielding and protecting them, by giving them food, drink, and shelter, or by other neighborly
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Therefore we Christians, in turn, are obliged not to tolerate their wanton and conscious blasphemy.

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Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death.

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What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do, we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blasphemy. Thus we cannot extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we must practice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengeance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice:
First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly ­ and I myself was unaware of it ­ will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.
Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.
Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted)
Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17 [:10 ff.]) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16 {:18], "You are Peter," etc, inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach.
Fifth, I advise that safe­conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. (...remainder omitted).
Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us all they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a good and worthy cause.
Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen 3[:19]}. For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.

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But what will happen even if we do burn down the Jews' synagogues and forbid them publicly to praise God, to pray, to teach, to utter God's name? They will still keep doing it in secret. If we know that they are doing this in secret, it is the same as if they were doing it publicly. for our knowledge of their secret doings and our toleration of them implies that they are not secret after all and thus our conscience is encumbered with it before God.

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Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as I said earlier, is:
First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss in sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire. That would demonstrate to God our serious resolve and be evidence to all the world that it was in ignorance that we tolerated such houses, in which the Jews have reviled God, our dear Creator and Father, and his Son most shamefully up till now but that we have now given them their due reward.

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I wish and I ask that our rulers who have Jewish subjects exercise a sharp mercy toward these wretched people, as suggested above, to see whether this might not help (though it is doubtful). They must act like a good physician who, when gangrene has set in, proceeds without mercy to cut, saw, and burn flesh, veins, bone, and marrow. Such a procedure must also be followed in this instance. Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them, as Moses did in the wilderness, slaying three thousand lest the whole people perish. They surely do not know what they are doing; moreover, as people possessed, they do not wish to know it, hear it, or learn it. There it would be wrong to be merciful and confirm them in their conduct. If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs, so that we do not become partakers of their abominable blasphemy and all their other vices and thus merit God's wrath and be damned with them. I have done my duty. Now let everyone see to his. I am exonerated."

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My essay, I hope, will furnish a Christian (who in any case has no desire to become a Jew) with enough material not only to defend himself against the blind, venomous Jews, but also to become the foe of the Jews' malice, lying, and cursing, and to understand not only that their belief is false but that they are surely possessed by all devils. May Christ, our dear Lord, convert them mercifully and preserve us steadfastly and immovably in the knowledge of him, which is eternal life. Amen.

From Luther's Works, Volume 47: The Christian in Society IV, (Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1971). pp 268­293.

Without a doubt. Blood anti-semitism started in Catholic Spain and was picked up the the Protestants. Martin Luther on his death bed cursed the Jews and wished that they would be burned. That Protestant Nazi got his wish.

ruveyn

I did check a few quotes against a partial version of the Talmud I found on a Jewish site and those quotes seemed correct. Some parts of the Talmud are not available at all online, though, since many Jews believe the Talmud should not be translated, which of course makes it hard to verify quotes from those particular parts. How convenient

First of all, conversion is heavily discouraged and being a Jew is generally considered a genetic rather than religious issue. Second, xenophobia towards gentiles is extremely common within the Jewish community both among secular Jews and religious Jews alike. This is far from limited to countries where antisemitism is common and in fact it seems that antisemitism is pretty much always a reaction to Jewish xenophobia rather than the other way around.

Most secular Jews are Zionists and in a way Zionism is the secular equivalent to Judaism considering both are basically a means to establish the Jews as a unique ethnic group, protect the interests of that ethnic group and work against the interests of those perceived as enemies. Both tend to be very hostile towards gentiles.

There are many people out there, like myself, who are very critical about Judaic culture yet judge everyone on an individual basis. I don't know you so I can't just you as a person regardless of your heritage, however I do criticise your heritage and what it stands for.

People tend to think in terms of stereotypes. People with Asperger's experience a similar prejudice, as do people who are wheelchair bound, people who are black, people who don't have a college degree, people with specific political views, people with specific religious views, etc. It's a common human flaw that's far from limited to Jewish encounters with gentiles.

No, Luther didn't curse Jews on his death bed - he in fact had a returned to his sanity and asked that Jews be treated better, as he had in his earlier days.

One of Luther's recent biographers has demonstrated that the old man in his later years began spouting all that bile after he survived several catastrophic illnesses, which doubtlessly left him with a degree of organic brain damage. Not only Jews were targeted by Luther in his rants, but so were Catholics, other Protestants, his theology students who didn't learn their assignments quick enough (yes, really), and even some of his closest friends.

No, I'm not trying to excuse Luther, but in all fairness, the man wasn't in his right mind when he wrote and said those ugly things. Luther's colleges and his wife tried arguing with him about his Antisemitism, and after his death tried to keep these writings suppressed. It was only in the twentieth century that the Nazis resurrected this ugliness, which for the most part probably would have otherwise remained forgotten.

The Jews who have arrived would nearly all like to remain here, but learning that they (with their customary usury and deceitful trading with the Christians) were very repugnant to the inferior magistrates, as also to the people having the most affection for you; the Deaconry also fearing that owing to their present indigence they might become a charge in the coming winter, we have, for the benefit of this weak newly developing place and land in general, deemed it useful to require them in a friendly way to depart; praying also most seriously in this connection, for ourselves also for the general community of your worships, that the deceitful race - such hateful enemies and blasphemers of the name of Christ - not be allowed further to infect and trouble this new colony.

—Peter Styvesant, Letter to the Amsterdam Chamber of the Dutch West India Company, from New Amsterdam, September 22, 1654.

If we read the history of the Jews written by an author of another nation, we would have sorrow to believe that there were indeed fugitive people of Egypt which came by express order from God immoler seven or eight small nations that they didn't know; to cut the throat without mercy of a woman, old men and children with the udder, and to reserve only the small girls; that these holy people were punished of his God when it had been enough criminal to save only one man devoted to the anathema. We would not believe that so abominable people (Jews) had been able to exist on the earth. But as this nation itself brings back all its facts in its holy books to us, it should be believed.

—Voltaire, Essai sur les mœurs (1756) Tome 1, pages 158–159

[The Jewish nation] dares spread an irreconcilable hatred against all nations; it revolts against all its masters. Always superstitious, always avid of the well-being enjoyed by others, always barbarous, crawling in misfortune, and insolent in prosperity. Here are what were the Jews in the eyes of the Greeks and the Romans who could read their books.

—Voltaire, Essai sur les mœurs (1756) Tome 1, page 186

Nothing more contemptible could be done than the reception of the Jews by you. I decided to improve the Jews. But I do not want more of them in my kingdom. Indeed, I have done all to prove my scorn of the most vile nation in the world.

—Napoleon Bonaparte, Letter to his brother Jerome, King of Westphalia, March 6, 1808

(1) Every big and small Jew is the peddling trade must renew his license every year.
(2) Checks and other obligations are only redeemable if the Jew can prove that he has obtained the money without cheating.

—Napoleon Bonaparte, Ordinance of March 17, 1808. Napoleonic Code.

I have long since believed that in spite of all the vigilance that can be infused into post commanders, the special regulations of the Treasury Department have been violated, and that mostly by Jews and other unprincipled traders. So well satisfied have I been of this that I instructed the commanding officers at Columbus to refuse all permits to Jews to come South, and I have frequently had them expelled from the department, but they come in with their carpet-sacks in spite of all that can be done to prevent it. The Jews seem to be a privileged class that can travel anywhere. They will land at any woodyard on the river and make their way through the country. If not permitted to buy cotton themselves, they will act as agents for someone else, who will be at military post with a Treasury permit to receive cotton and pay for it in Treasury notes which the Jew will buy up at an agreed rate, paying gold.

—Ulysses S. Grant, Letters to C. P. Wolcott, assistant secretary of war, Washington, December 17, 1862

1. The Jews, as a class, violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department, and also Department orders, are hereby expelled from the Department.
2. Within twenty-four hours from the receipt of this order by Post Commanders, they will see that all of this class of people are furnished with passes and required to leave, and anyone returning after such notification, will be arrested and held in confinement until an opportunity occurs of sending them out as prisoners, unless furnished with permits from these headquarters.
3. No permits will be given these people to visit headquarters for the purpose of making personal application for trade permits.
By order of Major Gen. Grant Jno. A. Rawlings, Assistant Adjutant General

—Ulysses S. Grant, General Order Number 11, December 17, 1862

In the U.S. cotton states, after the war... the Jew came down in force, set up shop on the plantation, supplied all the Negroes' wants on credit, and at the end of the season was the proprietor of the Negro's share of the present crop and part of the next one. Before long, the whites detested the Jew. (1)
The Jew is being legislated out of Russia. The reason is not concealed. The movement was instituted because the Christian peasant stood no chance against his commercial abilities. The Jew was always ready to lend on a crop. When settlement day came, he owned the crop; the next year he owned the farm - like Joseph. (2)
In the England of John's time everybody got into debt to the Jew. He gathered all lucrative enterprises into his hands. He was the King of Commerce. He had to be banished from the realm. For like reasons, Spain had to banish him 400 years ago, and Austria a couple of centuries later.
In all ages Christian Europe has been obliged to curtail his activities. If he entered upon a trade, the Christian had to retire from it. If he set up as a doctor, he took the business. If he exploited agriculture, the other farmers had to get at something else. The law had to step in to save the Christian from the poor-house. Still, almost bereft of employments, he found ways to make money. Even to get rich. This history has a most sordid and practical commercial look. Religious prejudices may account for one part of it, bit not for the other nine.
Protestants have persecuted Catholics - but they did not take their livelihoods away from them. Catholics have persecuted Protestants - bit they never closed agriculture and the handicrafts against them. I feel convinced that the Crucifixion has not much to do with the world's attitude toward the Jew; that the reasons for it are much older than that event ...
I am convinced that the persecution of the Jew is not in any large degree due to religious prejudice. No, the Jew is a money-getter. He made it the end and aim of his life. He was at it in Rome. He has been at it ever since. His success has made the whole human race his enemy.
You will say that the Jew is everywhere numerically feeble. When I read in the Cyclopedia Britannica that the Jewish population in the United States was 250,000 I wrote the editor and explained to him that I was personally acquainted with more Jews than that, and that his figures were without doubt a misprint for 25,000,000. People told me that they had reasons to suspect that for business reasons, many Jews did not report themselves as Jews. It looks plausible. I am strongly of the opinion that we have an immense Jewish population in America. I am assured by men competent to speak that the Jews are exceedingly active in politics.

—Mark Twain, Concerning the Jews, In: Harper's Monthly Magazine, September 1899

The International Jewish plan to move their money market to the United States was what the American people did rot want. We have the warning of history as to what this means. It has meant in turn that Spain, Venice, Germany or Great Britain received the blame or suspicion of the world for what the Jewish financiers have done. It is a most important consideration that most of the national animosities that exist today arose out of resentment against what Jewish money power did under the camouflage of national names.

"The British did this," "The Germans did this," when it was the International Jew who did it, the nations being but the marked spaces on his checker board. Today, around the world the blaming word is heard, "The United States did this. If it were not for the United States the world would be in a better shape. The Americans are a sordid, greedy, cruel people."

Why? Because the Jewish money power is centered here and is making money out of both our immunity and Europe's distress, playing one against the other; and because so many so-called "American business men" abroad today are not Americans at all - they are Jews.

Citizens wake up with a start to find that even the white nations are hardly allowed to see each other nowadays except through Jewish eyes. Great Britain and France seldom see a special American spokesman who is not a Jew. That may be the reason why they reciprocate by sending Jews to us, thinking perhaps that we prefer them.

—Henry Ford, The International Jew : The World's Foremost Problem (1920), chapter 1

In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish efforts rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxemburg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide revolutionary conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster has ably shown, a definite recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworlds of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of the enormous empire.
There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creating of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews. It is certainly the very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders... In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astounding. And the prominent if not the principal part in the system of terrorism applied by the extraordinary Commissions for combating Counter Revolution has been take by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many nonJews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.

—Winston Churchill, Zionism versus Bolshevism: A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People. In : Illustrated Sunday Herald, London, February 8, 1920.

Director Oliver Stone downplayed the Holocaust during an interview with the Sunday Times today, claiming that America's focus on the genocide of Jews was a product of the "Jewish domination of the media." The director also defended Hitler and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and railed against the "powerful lobby" of Jews in America.

"Hitler was a Frankenstein but there was also a Dr Frankenstein. German industrialists, the Americans and the British. He had a lot of support," Stone told reporter Camilla Long during the interview, which can be found behind the paywall on the Sunday Times' website. Stone said that, "Hitler did far more damage to the Russians than the Jewish people, 25 or 30 [million killed]."

The Sunday Times interviewer then asked why there was such a focus on the Holocaust. "The Jewish domination of the media," responded Stone. "There's a major lobby in the United States. They are hard workers. They stay on top of every comment, the most powerful lobby in Washington. Israel has f***** up United States foreign policy for years."

The director, who recently met with Iranian President Ahmadinejad, also slammed the U.S. policy toward Iran as "horrible." He added: "Iran isn't necessarily the good guy, but we don't know the full story!"

Which quotes are you talking about, and which ones were you unable to verify?

It is discouraged because unlike in christianity, which basically teaches that if you are not christian, you'll go to hell, no such concept exists in judaism.

Instead, in rabbinical judaism as a religion, it is held that jews have an obligation to follow certain laws laid down in the Torah known as Mitzvahs. And by following these laws is how they earn the acceptance of God. Those born into Judaism have an obligation by birth, and cannot rid themselves of it, and those who converted to judaism have an obligation which they have brought on themselves. Non-jews do not have this obligation.

In most congregations it's not difficult to convert if that is what you want to do. You usually attend a course for a year or two to learn more about Judaism, take a test, and then there is a ceremony in which you go before a jewish court, or counsel, take some sort of oath, and participate in mikvah. If you are male, you usually need to be circumsized if you are not already. If you are, some congregations require a small drop of blood be drawn from the area. Conversion methods between the various branches of judaism will vary in details.

The word "jew" or "jewish" has multiple meanings. There is an ethnic meaning, a cultural meaning, and two different religious meanings, and people generally disagree on the question of "who is a jew".

Before I elaborate on this let me clarify that in rabbinical conservative or orthodox judaism, one is only considered jewish by jewish law, if their mother was also jewish by jewish law, or they converted in a way deemed acceptable by jewish law. We can discuss the origins of this if you like as it's quite controversial, but it's a long subject.

Jewish ethnicities arose around the practice of Judaism and the partial segregation of Jewish communities from surrounding non-jewish communities. As these ethnicities arose, distinct cultures developed in these communities. To these ends, you have Ashkenazi jews. These are the jews most people are familiar with, ethnically and culturally and generally hail from Eastern Europe. Then there are Sephardic jews, who hail from Southern Europe. Mizrahi jews are generally middle eastern jews but are usually now grouped with Sephardic jews. And there are Syrian jews, Persian jews, Ethiopian jews, and even some Indian, Iraqi and Egyptian jews.

A person can be ethnically jewish but not culturally jewish (many jews). Culturally jewish but not ethnically jewish (my great step grandmother was like this). Culturally and ethnically jewish but not religiously jewish. Jewish according to rabbinical or karaite law, but not ethnically, culturally or religiously jewish, and any combination there of.

Lots of secular jews are zionists...probably most, certainly not all. Nor are all orthodox jews.

Most christians are also Zionists in my experience.

When Israel was first created, the concept was simple. Give jews a homeland because the situation in Europe was obviously a bit hostile towards them (there were already jews in the region at the time though). Most jews, of course, supported this. And by "jews" I mean anyone who would have been seen as a jew by the Nazis, or was considered to be a jew by the non-jewish population.

This is also a long topic but I'd be more than happy to discuss it with you if you wish. It basically boils down to the fact that the folks at the Chief Rabbinate of Israel are d!cks and most non-Israelis just haven't figured this out yet. Is the Chief Rabbinate hostile towards gentiles? Maybe. I can see how one would get that impression. But they are also hostile towards jews they don't think are jewish enough. Like I said, they're d!cks.

As for secular jews, reform jews, conservative jews, and modern orthodox jews, I don't see this hostility you are talking about. Certainly none of the jews I've ever known personally have been hostile towards gentiles. The only time I've encountered jews who were hostile towards gentiles were some Hasidic jews in New York, and this was a small, cloistered bunch.

I certainly don't agree with all aspects of all things considered jewish in a broad sense, and I doubt you could find a jew...in the broad sense, who does. As I said, there really isn't a group called "jews" except in the face of anti-semitism. Then everyone who thinks they are lumped into this group for one reason or another, is going to get defensive, of course, because they feel threatened.

Very true. Very true indeed. If you want to go more into depth on any of the subject above, you are welcome to PM me.

True. Nevertheless, sometimes this actually IS true. Are the Native Americans wrong to blame White Americans for ending up in reservations where most of them lead an existence in poverty? Are African-Americans wrong to blame White and Jewish slave owners for their ancestors' enslavement?

Sometimes there actually are groups that harm the interests of other groups and the above are two obvious examples. Similarly, Jews have worked against the interests of other peoples for their own advantage and there's ample historical evidence for this. This doesn't imply that EVERY Jew is an evil conspirator any more than either of the above means that every White man was a mass murderer or slave monger, however that doesn't mean that it's irrelevant to mention the Jewish background of these individuals as they have done what they did for their group interests.



Then Hitler should not have been taken seriously either.



That's how you would have treated Hitler? If your answer is no, then where do you draw the line? You are aware of the fact that Jews, although a small minority, are very powerful in the West right?!



Actuallt, WW2 was a consequence of Hitler's invasion of Poland and that was a local conflict that escalated after many years of negotiations that ended when Poland unilaterally decided to cease negotiations due to English lobbying. It's always easy to blame the loser of a war for the entire war, but in reality England and France were the actual war mongers who manipulated Germany into attacking Poland after quickly signing a treaty with them that gave both countries a legally valid reason to declare was on Germany. Similarly, many other claims about Hitler's regime are dubious to say the least.



You should be telling that to "God's chosen people", not to me.

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You do the same, with your method of argumentation. I do not care if you are antisemitic and paranoid

We all should have treated hitler seriously.

But, no, Sal, I do not take you seriously. And I do not care what you do with your rantings and ravings. I have read worse by more dangerous people, like the aforementioned dictator. As for your other thread, it is just more antisemitic raving, not so cleverly disguised as a conspiracy theory, which of course we all should believe, because it is something on the internet.

Chosen? Do you believe in a god that would do this? Then we have no argument, as I am an atheist.

Well Mr. Salonfilosoof- I'm not going to task everyone else by re-quoting your whole Antisemitic mess you've posted.

You asked how do we know Luther changed his mind about Jews on his death bed. And the answer to that is, everything he said was written down by theological students and friends - even the embarrassing things such as when he talked about his constipation... and his later Antisemitism. And guess what, they also wrote down everything he said on his death bed. That is indeed HISTORIC FACT!

And yes, I stand by my statement - Martin Luther was no longer in his right mind when he said those ugly things about Jews, and others, toward the end of his life. But he should be remembered for the courage of his convictions, and his theological insight rather than his later loss of his mental faculties.

What about Lewis Farrakhan?